Trial Discussion Thread #13 - 14.03.25, Day 15

[nastasya]

I think that's kind of the point - he didn't feel like he could escape safely or quickly enough (according to his account).

He didn't feel like he could escape quickly enough even though he was standing 3 feet from the bedroom door which led to the large outside deck. Instead of grabbing the gun, then getting Reeva to safety, he grabbed the gun, walked through the hallway into the bathroom, and shot through a closed toilet door.

Of course he was looking out for Reeva's best interest and trying to protect her when he killed her. (Where's OP's green puke bucket....)

 

[Val1]

I have no idea what this means in terms of the law - I would think having possession of illegal ammunition is the offense, irrespective of who owned it. But who knows what the law is in SA?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/185695401/Full-document-%E2%80%93-Oscar-Pistorius-indictment

Count 4, apparently possession is the factor in that particular charge.

 

[minor4th]

It has an entry and exit point though. I can't imagine what else would cause that other than some type of projectile.

Also, the locking mechanism of that door is on the bottom of the door. Oscar claims the bedroom door was locked. Why is his door smashed in right next to the locking mechanism? That is a big problem for me.

I think that Nel specifically did not explain this evidence, or have his experts explain the evidence, because he wants to catch Oscar up. If he had completely shown his hand, Oscar could have prepped. Oscar is going in to his testimony somewhat blind as to the ultimate State theory at this point. I have to believe this. If I am wrong, I will gladly eat my words

Um, he might have had some kind of sign nailed through his door.

About the rest, if Nel had evidence that the damage to the door was something related to the incident, he would have brought that evidence. He does not now have the chance to recall witnesses to refute Oscar's version. All Oscar has to do is give some explanation about that damage, and that takes care of that. I do not think it's relevant since Nel did not bring any evidence about it.

The State has made its case now. Oscar just has to rebut it with possibilities. Nel can't hide his case from the defense.

 

[Gavel Rash]

As side note to the personality of Oscar... Have any of you noticed his stare down technique towards witnesses being questioned? I notice at times he will look up and glare directly at the witness and even follow them with the same glare as they stand down. It appears to be an example of his intimidatory action towards those who don't agree or believe him. He's scary.

He must be a very damaged man..father left, financial struggles, mother died whilst away in boarding school, his main support, his maleness questioned constantly because he was disabled. His need to prove himself as a man amongst men, an equal always...his exhilaration noted in his book Bladerunner of how charged he was when he got clapped and rewarded for his accolades and how he wanted that feeling all the time. The guns of course are a well noted addition to boost the macho image of a rugged REAL MAN. I 'almost' have a very small amount of compassion for him.....

 

[minor4th]

Not really, Piet could be the term of endearment for Peet, as well as Pietie, peetjie, pietjie etc...it's a very common Afrikaans name.

I think Piet was Justin Divarias

 

[Gavel Rash]

Not really, Piet could be the term of endearment for Peet, as well as Pietie, peetjie, pietjie etc...it's a very common Afrikaans name.

But the prosecution made appoint of NOT attaching a person known to that name...they left it as...called someone saved as Piet , not called his manager Peet.
As they had already quantified the other phone numbers with known persons.

 

[Really?]

Amazingly, no body ever went deaf playing cricket. Go figure.

............:floorlaugh:

 

[BritsKate]

Sorry, but my OH has two very severely disabled adult 40 year old sons who need care 24/7 so I can tell you OP is not a very severely disabled person nor a severely disabled man, and in the disability world I volunteer in as an independent advocate he would not be present and would be incensed if it was ever suggested he needed my services. Further, if you watch the video "The fastest man on no legs" you will see that even without prosthetics he was running around like his brother and did every sport imaginable some even just on his stumps. jmo

Thank you - I had much the same reaction. My husband is disabled as well. After a failed operation, he's unable to even stand without crutches (braces) and not without pain so immense he's on palliative level pain management. He will eventually lose what limited mobility he has. There isn't a moment of a day that I don't wish he were as disabled as Oscar Pistorius.

 

[Gavel Rash]

I think Piet was Justin Divarias

No Justin called beforehand


3:55 - Voice call - outgoing to a number saved as Justin Duvaris, lasting 123s
4:01 - Voice call - outgoing - from a number saves as "Deco", revealed to belong to Heinreich Pistorius
4:09 to 4:10 - Voice calls - outgoing - to a number saved as "Piet", lasting between 3 and 11 seconds
4:11 - Voice call - incoming - from Piet, lasting 49s

 

[minor4th]

Sorry minor but I can't resist it... total bull whatever. OP can actually run on stumps better than he can walk, (question of balance and speed, I can ride a bike at speed but I fall when I have to slow down). Both OP and Reeva can manage guns... and there were enough guns for both. The stairs to the ground floor are nearby.

But most important of all IT WAS A JOKE... pleeeeeaaaase !

I disagree. I think it sounds reasonable when fearful that an intruder is about to shoot, and he's on his stumps and his bedroom door is locked, preventing quick and certain escape for him and Reeva.

It doesn't matter if he can run on his stumps better than he can walk - it matters whether he was afraid he and Reeva could safely and quickly escape his bedroom (whether on stumps or legs or whatever).

And BTW where is everyone getting this information about how mobile and quick Oscar is on his stumps?

 

[Gbtaketwo]

When he went downstairs with Reeva he was not in fear that he was about to be shot.

I do accept that but I kind of think if I had just seen that I had shot my loved one and literally blown their brains out I would still be in a hyper state of distress
The point here is that he got out of the bedroom quickly when he needed to but why not when he was in fear .
While they are totally different emotions they can both frazzle the brain to stop clear thinking . We are expecting to believe that his was screaming like an hysterical woman but clear minded at the same time .
Not trying to be argumentative

 

[nastasya]

I'm afraid unless somebody knows something we don't, nothing has yet been proven to be beyond reasonable doubt, and nothing is yet irrefutable.

Those are two of the few things that we can currently determine as fact.

We've only heard one side of the case yet.

That is 100% incorrect. There has been much proven beyond all doubt:

• Reeva was killed by OP.
• Killer was not in imminent danger.
• Killer shot four black talon bullets through a closed toilet door.
• Reeva was not armed.
• Reeva was not moving towards killer threatening him.
• Killer holding a 9 mm gun moved towards victim in the toilet stall.

The above facts are the state's prima facie case. The defense now has burden of proof to show why killer was not in violation of SA's murder laws when he shot Reeva 3 times.

 

[steveml]

Sorry, but my OH has two very severely disabled adult 40 year old sons who need care 24/7 so I can tell you OP is not a very severely disabled person nor a severely disabled man, and in the disability world I volunteer in as an independent advocate he would not be present and would be incensed if it was ever suggested he needed my services. Further, if you watch the video "The fastest man on no legs" you will see that even without prosthetics he was running around like his brother and did every sport imaginable some even just on his stumps. jmo

I appreciate and respect that. Then surely the same stance should be taken when it was suggested that OP shouldn't have gone after the intruder without his prosthesis on? If he is perfectly capable, there should be no problem with him going after an intruder in the manner that he did.

I've no problem with that as long as the discussion regarding degree of disability remains consistent throughout the events of the shooting.

 

[james83]

I disagree. I think it sounds reasonable when fearful that an intruder is about to shoot, and he's on his stumps and his bedroom door is locked, preventing quick and certain escape for him and Reeva.

It doesn't matter if he can run on his stumps better than he can walk - it matters whether he was afraid he and Reeva could safely and quickly escape his bedroom (whether on stumps or legs or whatever).

And BTW where is everyone getting this information about how mobile and quick Oscar is on his stumps?

In his story, Why would he hear a noise bend down to get his gun and at no point inform his girlfriend what he had heard and what he was about to do, that just wouldn't happen, he showed zero concern for Reeva's safety, he went off into dark totally exposed knowing if he was hurt/killed Reeva was left totally exposed with not a clue what was going on, it's yet another giant suspension of belief.

 

[Insp.Dots]

Ok, that just made me laugh. We are a creative bunch. :giggle:

Well I did have a crazy dream last night. They made a Hollywood film about the case and OP was found Guilty but didn't have to go to jail....HOWEVER.... at the very end. He sat on his bed and had decided to open RS's Valentine's gift, thinking it was gonna be a photo album........basically...he blew up! Reeves got her own justice in my dream!

sent via my kindle

 

[Carol70]

But the prosecution made appoint of NOT attaching a person known to that name...they left it as...called someone saved as Piet , not called his manager Peet.
As they had already quantified the other phone numbers with known persons.

Could be because it was irrelevant, Peet was called and arrived at the house sometime during the early morning. I think it's safe to assume Piet/Peet are the same person. Naturally, I could be wrong

 

[james83]

I appreciate and respect that. Then surely the same stance should be taken when it was suggested that OP shouldn't have gone after the intruder without his prosthesis on? If he is perfectly capable, there should be no problem with him going after an intruder in the manner that he did.

I've no problem with that as long as the discussion regarding degree of disability remains consistent throughout the events of the shooting.

Trouble is It's Oscar who brings it up in his affidavit

"As I did not have my prosthetic legs on and felt extremely vulnerable".

 

[Gbtaketwo]

In his story, Why would he hear a noise bend down to get his gun and at no point inform his girlfriend what he had heard and what he was about to do, that just wouldn't happen, he showed zero concern for Reeva's safety, he went off into dark totally exposed knowing if he was hurt/killed Reeva was left totally exposed with not a clue what was going on, it's yet another giant suspension of belief.

Yes that is my feeling . He thought he was stood right next to Reeva by the doors and had to bend down and pick his gun up .
In this regard his disability has no input to my mind to not speak to someone under such circumstance is just literally unconceivable disabled or not JMO
In any event unless there is a big big surprise during the defence I think a murder charge is likely proven anyway .

 

[Viper]

They were actually under the bathroom window not the bedroom .
A photograph was entered into evidence showing the window above and the general location but they were not mentioned ,I don't think anyway
But I get dizzy some days lol

I am confused because in the image that I first saw here some weeks ago it looked like there were tiles, (perhaps) a square vertical post, and perhaps an air conditioner. The post is most confusing because that would I think go to the balcony. So I am wondering. You folks looked at more than one image to draw your conclusion so I accept that, but I just can't recall seeing an air conditioner under the bathroom window. Does anyone have a photo of that area so that I can fully get this? Finding images of the jeans is impossible outside of WS, kudos!!!

 

[Val1]

Thanks. I have a recording studio and work with decibels. You are indeed correct regarding the possible differing conditions, however the one aspect you're missing is that sound waves do not gain amplitude. They lose amplitude as they travel. There are times when sound will travel further than others, but the closer you are to that sound source the louder it will be.

Depends on obstructions, a tree, a wall, a fence, etc. let alone direction of the sound waves.

ie. When my neighbour has parties the sound from them carries way further and louder down the street that is on the other side of the house behind his than to mine which is directly beside his. In fact, the fence separating our lots is only about 15-20 ft from my patio door and the side of his house is about 4 ft from it. So basically, the sounds coming out his patio doors when they're open carries as loudly to about two blocks away as to my home right next door.

I know because one night I took a walk to test it because I'd had people from up that street come to me wondering why I wasn't calling police to complain about it..