Trial Discussion Thread #14 - 14.03.28, Day 16

[katydid23]

About the leak of the prosecution strategy (what?!) and also possible defense tactic of changing the definition of "reasonable man."


http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/pi...lothes-are-key-evidence-pistorius-case-n39071

Have you all seen this older Feb 28th, NBC article?

"South African journalist Karyn Maughan said his legal team is crafting a novel interpretation of the country's self-defense law, which is based on how a "reasonable" person would react to danger."

"You need to judge him as the reasonable paraplegic, and you need to take into account that this is a person who has persistently said that he's felt the most vulnerable on his stumps and was living, essentially, in a state of fear, in a state of terror."

If true, I find this legal strategy interesting, yet morally horrible. In a country with a great poverty divide and a huge difference in how black people are treated, rich privileged Pistorius, whose mogul family is like landed gentry, is trying to bend the rules, yet again.

BBM

I think the problem they will face with this strategy is answering why he did not take the 30 seconds necessary to strap on his legs, before charging head on into that deadly confrontation. If he is so vulnerable on his stumps, why leave a locked room, and not call for help, but go running down a dark hallway on said stumps, to meet an unknown danger?

 

[katydid23]

Please forgive me if this is blatantly obvious and I'm being stupid but why do you put 'mark' posts up? TIA

Sometimes peeps like to mark where they stopped reading. Then they know where to start when they return. [ u can check your own posts to see ]

 

[Viper]

About the leak of the prosecution strategy (what?!) and also possible defense tactic of changing the definition of "reasonable man."


http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/pi...lothes-are-key-evidence-pistorius-case-n39071

Have you all seen this older Feb 28th, NBC article?

"South African journalist Karyn Maughan said his legal team is crafting a novel interpretation of the country's self-defense law, which is based on how a "reasonable" person would react to danger."

"You need to judge him as the reasonable paraplegic, and you need to take into account that this is a person who has persistently said that he's felt the most vulnerable on his stumps and was living, essentially, in a state of fear, in a state of terror."

If true, I find this legal strategy interesting, yet morally horrible. In a country with a great poverty divide and a huge difference in how black people are treated, rich privileged Pistorius, whose mogul family is like landed gentry, is trying to bend the rules, yet again.

What? Did you really expect OP to take responsibility for his actions? He has (had) money and he wants an exception to the rules. He won't get it, but it is funny watching him try!!! :smile:

 

[Interested Bystander]

I am amazed at this reporting. It seems the US are already releasing more content of the WhatsApp messages before we have heard them from the trial.

http://www.nbcnews.com/#/storyline/...-sick-people-want-fill-her-head-doubts-n64036

 

[Estelle]

No. From what I have read he can be lethal in cross examination. I think he has such a different style from Roux that he appears not to get involved. Whilst Roux blusters on about little or nothing and endlessly repeats himself, Nel stands quietly by watching the performance. I think he has probably brought into evidence everything he needs for a good cross examination but I have no legal experience, so what do I know - LOL.

Maybe he is so confident that what he has presented cannot be defended so he has just presented the bare facts to keep it simple and not to distract.

I found this article interesting concerning how the defence will fight back.

Three areas:

1. Ballistics

2. Pathology

3. Psychiatry

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/27/world/africa/pistorius-trial-defense/

Ballistics - will they prove that the first shot killed her?

Pathology - will they prove that Reeva's last meal was not at 1am?

Psychiatry - will they be able to argue the case that Oscar acted like a reasonable disabled man?

Then we also have

Reeva's screaming or OP screaming like a woman.

The sounds - cricket bat? gunshots? number of them.

Argument or no argument?

Will OP only give his evidence once all this has been sorted out? IMO if that happens then he can manufacture his testimony according to the evidence even if he changes from his Affidavits.

I am looking forward to hearing from the Defence Psychiatrist. IMO OP should have got treatment for his paranoia long ago and been under a psychiatrist if it had been genuine but I think it was attention seeking for thrills and sadism as Shane13 reminds us.

 

[Suthrnqt]

Please forgive me if this is blatantly obvious and I'm being stupid but why do you put 'mark' posts up? TIA

To 'mark' your spot when reading on tapatalk app. HTH.

 

[Cherwell]

To 'mark's your spot when reading on tapatalk app. HTH.

Doesn't the "subscribe to thread" tool work on your device? Just wondering. I use that, and the 'view first unread' button, but I mainly use a laptop for reading WS.

 

[Estelle]

I am amazed at this reporting. It seems the US are already releasing more content of the WhatsApp messages before we have heard them from the trial.

http://www.nbcnews.com/#/storyline/...-sick-people-want-fill-her-head-doubts-n64036

I had not realised that many of the legal documents are given to the media. So would NBC have paid a lot of money for exclusivity or are they released to all the media at the same time? Would the Prosecution have given or sold them to the media?

 

[Suthrnqt]

Doesn't the "subscribe to thread" tool work on your device? Just wondering. I use that, and the 'view first unread' button, but I mainly use a laptop for reading WS.

I am reading from my phone and using the tapatalk app.

 

[shane13]

If DT's strategy is to try to warp "Reasonable man" into "reasonable paraplegic" then there are several counters that Pros can use.

1. OP's own autobio [read here] hangs him. He has always said his mother raised him not to feel differently at all. He did not walk around in fear
2. With his gun aways at his side, he was not fearful at all, rather he was agressive all the time.
3. if he really had heard an unknown sound, he could have immediately hit the "panic button" to estate security and they would have been there in circa 60 seconds. This button appears never to have been hit that night.

 

[Cherwell]

I am reading from my phone and using the tapatalk app.

I realised that, hence my question. Never mind, it's not important.

 

[Cherwell]

I am looking forward to hearing from the State's Psychiatrist. IMO OP should have got treatment for his paranoia long ago and been under a psychiatrist if it had been genuine but I think it was attention seeking for thrills and sadism as Shane13 reminds us.

It will be the defence's psychiatrist if one is called, surely? We have heard all the State's witnesses.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Sorry mistaken post

 

[G.bng]

Yes that is what I have been thinking too. I now think it is a ridiculous system. At least with juries, they have reserves.

Wouldn't it be fact the SA trial system does not provide for a reserve assessor, that is ridiculous and not the bench trial system itself which is far from ridiculous and used in many countries around the world. Even countries like the UK where we have jury trials many matters are decided by a judge or a group of judges anyway.

There are clearly pros and cons for both systems but in countries where there is such a large social, educational and/or racial divide, imo bench trials are the only option, and I am not sure I don't prefer a bench system anyway.

 

[Estelle]

It will be the defence's psychiatrist if one is called, surely? We have heard all the State's witnesses.

Sorry I made a mistake and have changed it in my post now. Thanks for pointing it out.

However, I think psychiatric opinion is necessary to argue the reasonable or unreasonable defence and once the Defence has given theirs, I think the State would need to have their Psychiatrist to argue against what was said which IMO will follow. I heard that the State's Psychiatrist was in court today ready to study OP's body language.

 

[Interested Bystander]

If DT's strategy is to try to warp "Reasonable man" into "reasonable paraplegic" then there are several counters that Pros can use.

1. OP's own autobio [read here] hangs him. He has always said his mother raised him not to feel differently at all. He did not walk around in fear
2. With his gun aways at his side, he was not fearful at all, rather he was agressive all the time.
3. if he really had heard an unknown sound, he could have immediately hit the "panic button" to estate security and they would have been there in circa 60 seconds. This button appears never to have been hit that night.

I wonder why they keep referring to him as paraplegic.

I feel much the same as you, there is way too much in his past interviews for anyone to believe he has suddenly become this helpless, frightened man and the lack of use of the panic button is quite unbelievable.

Shane, do you have any idea why his trial statement left out the "bedroom door being locked" element? It opens him up further to questions as to why he did not immediately take Reeva down the stairs and out of the house. There has to be a reason.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Wouldn't it be fact the SA trial system does not provide for a reserve assessor, that is ridiculous and not the bench trial system itself which is far from ridiculous and used in many countries around the world. Even countries like the UK where we have jury trials many matters are decided by a judge or a group of judges anyway.

There are clearly pros and cons for both systems but in countries where there is such a large social, educational and/or racial divide, imo bench trials are the only option, and I am not sure I don't prefer a bench system anyway.

I would rather have a bench system in the UK.

 

[shane13]

I wonder why they keep referring to him as paraplegic.

I feel much the same as you, there is way too much in his past interviews for anyone to believe he has suddenly become this helpless, frightened man and the lack of use of the panic button is quite unbelievable.

Shane, do you have any idea why his trial statement left out the "bedroom door being locked" element? It opens him up further to questions as to why he did not immediately take Reeva down the stairs and out of the house. There has to be a reason.

IB: Well as much as I might try, I have a hard time trying to get my mindset into his statements due to all the contradictions or implausibilities therein.

 

[jay-jay]

BBM

I think the problem they will face with this strategy is answering why he did not take the 30 seconds necessary to strap on his legs, before charging head on into that deadly confrontation. If he is so vulnerable on his stumps, why leave a locked room, and not call for help, but go running down a dark hallway on said stumps, to meet an unknown danger?

There was no locked door between the bedroom and the bathroom area though .. as far as I can make out there is no door at all to that corridor that runs from the bedroom to the bathroom (with wardrobes along the sides of the passageway). The only door is the door from the bedroom out onto the landing (which I can only assume must be the one which was locked) .. so if it had actually been an intruder, they would've all been locked in the bedroom/ensuite bathroom area together. (not that I'm sticking up for him or anything :tongue: )

Oh, just thought .. if it all has to start again, this is all going to cost old OP one heck of a lot of money .. oh dear ..! :silenced:

 

[kittychi]

I am reading from my phone and using the tapatalk app.

fftopic:

OT, but I think it is funny enough to share. A Websleuther on a different forum that I follow has this as her tag line:

"Sent from my Etch-A-Sketch using Thwapasquak" :floorlaugh: