Trial Discussion Thread #14 - 14.03.28, Day 16

[jay-jay]

And that led to me wondering about a few other things, i.e.

3. How did OP get back into the bedroom when he went to find Reeva? If he carries a key when he sleeps then he wasn't "trapped" as he claims as he could have used it to get back in and call and wait for the police gun at the ready. If he doesn't carry the key and he had to get a spare, where was it, and why didn't he put it in his statement?
​

This thing about the bedroom door, and the key, and him stating "I felt trapped as my bedroom door was locked " is something which keeps cropping up and which I find really confusing.

The main reason for that being that there is no bedroom door to the bathroom area, so it's not a door between those areas which could've been bothering him because there isn't a door there anyway .. it must've been the door which led straight out from the bedroom to the landing (the bathroom and toilet was within the bedroom area, down a short corridor .. with no doors).

I don't understand a number of things here .. firstly, if you say he carries the key with him, then why not just head directly for the bedroom door (gun in hand for protection), unlock it and then proceed out onto the landing, down the stairs and out of the house .. and get yourself completely out of the way of danger. But why does he even carry the key on him? Why isn't it just in the bedroom door all the time in the first place? (unless he had deliberately locked Reeva in .. i.e. in the whole bedroom/ensuite bathroom area).​

 

[lisasalinger]

The light not working is one of the things I have most difficulty with.

It's easy to explain away, but is it convincing?

There are certain parts of a house where a bulb could blow, or you wouldn't necessarily repair a faulty switch, however bathroom and toilet areas are ones where you don't put up with such an inconvenience for very long at all.

We're bordering on the realms of coincidence to say it just happened to go that day or very recently, and I never like that in a trial.

There are a lot of things about the house that are highly suspicious, and I can't wait to hear how they explain those away too.

Broken light in bathroom

Broken tiles in bathroom

Banged in metal panel on bathtub

Broken window downstairs

Damage to the bedroom door - projectile holes, bang marks near the handle and the bottom portion of the door totally cracked in (conveniently next to the locking mechanism)

I've heard reports that the air conditioning was not working either (not sure if that was in testimony or something else I read)

The defense will explain all away, no doubt. After all, that is why they are called defense.

But the key is their believability. It's pretty rare in real life to have coincidence upon coincidence upon coincidence.

 

[turaj]

well now with this delay and easter week...this will never end. I can't imagine they don't have one extra person to work with the judge in case of a situation just like what happened here. between this trial and the search for MH 370 nothing moves fast enough for me.

 

[lisasalinger]

Add to that the phone that somebody from Oscar's camp took away from the scene very discretely. Please Roux, don't ask me to believe that was an accident.

Per the phone records, the phone was shut off sometime after 4am (after the Pete Van Zyl calls) and from then on, everything went to voicemail. No outgoing calls. This was the primary phone he used that night! According to pinging, it was taken away from the scene around 8am on February 14. Somebody took it! That was intentional.

The only reason they discovered that this phone existed was because Moller found the phone number during the course of his investigation. Again, I really hope they don't ask us to believe that a family member or defense member had it in their pocket somewhere and forgot about it, as a big oops. No way. They were hiding it.

But Oscar did graciously leave his other phone, the one he hadn't made outgoing calls on after 3:40pm or so.

This whole phone thing is an enormous red flag.

Really makes me wonder if it was his phone that he went to get when he ran back upstairs (when Stander and Stipp went outside that morning)

 

[nastasya]

Evidence to Support OP's Story:

Contrary to popular opinion, when OP went out on the deck and returned to the bedroom, the outside door being opened would NOT have made it easier to see Reeva in bed from the ambient outside lighting.

Here's why...

I did this very thing last night. My bed is directly facing the deck. I looked outside for maybe 3 seconds, then turned to get into bed. Much to my surprise the entire bed area was totally blacked out in my vision. My spouse was in bed but totally invisible to my vision, which had adjusted to the dim, outdoor ambient lighting. I had no way of seeing if my spouse was in bed or not. Zero visibility.

Weird, huh?

Of course if I would have heard somebody using the bathroom in that moment I would have reasonably inferred my spouse got up to pee when I wasn't paying attention.

Basically what OP is claiming pure stupidity as a reasonable defense. I guess that's why the standard is "reasonable person" and not "total idiot" or "maniacal lunatic" when the judge subjectively reaches a decision about OP's decision to kill somebody using the toilet.

 

[Gryffindor]

Was the toilet cubicle window the frosted glass one? If so, it would explain the dimmer light from Mrs Stipp.

 

[Gryffindor]

Add to that the phone that somebody from Oscar's camp took away from the scene very discretely. Please Roux, don't ask me to believe that was an accident.

Per the phone records, the phone was shut off sometime after 4am (after the Pete Van Zyl) calls and from them on, everything went to voicemail. No outgoing calls. This was the primary phone he used that night! According to pinging, it was taken away from the scene around 8am on February 14. Somebody took it! That was intentional.

The only reason they discovered that this phone existed was because Moller found the phone number during the course of his investigation. Again, I really hope they don't ask us to believe that a family member or defense member had it in their pocket somewhere and forgot about it, as a big oops. No way. They were hiding it.

But Oscar did graciously leave his other phone, the one he hadn't made outgoing calls on after 3:40pm or so.

This whole phone thing is an enormous red flag.

Really makes me wonder if it was his phone that he went to get when he ran back upstairs (when Stander and Stipp went outside that morning)

I thought it was stated that police removed it from the scene?? I could be wrong x

 

[Viper]

Points 1 and 2 are excellent. I totally agree with them.

For point 3, I think you may be confused about the layout. The bathroom is inside of the bedroom suite. It's just a hallway that separates the bathroom from where they were sleeping (no doors).

For points 4 & 5. From witness accounts (both Stipps) the bathroom light was on that night. When they heard the first set of bangs and looked out the window, the light was on.

Oscar claims the bedroom area was pitch black but I find it hard to believe that there wouldn't have been a tiny bit of ambient light coming from the bathroom considering it was right down a short hallway.

As for the toilet room light, it was the first we had heard from the defense that it was broken (when Mrs. Stipp was on the stand). So we'll just have to wait and see what they have to say about that. Mr. Stipp testified that the toilet room light was not on. Mrs. Stipp testified that she thought it was on but it looked dimmer than the bathroom light.

The reason why the defense would want it to be broken is because if Reeva was in that room with the lights off and the door locked, it looks a heck of a lot more like hiding than anything else. Nobody goes to pee in a dark and locked room when they have easy access to a light.

This "the WC lightbulb was broken" thing is a lie and it only serves the defense and it is just another line added to OPs fairy tale. How many OPisms does the DT honestly believe they can get away with?

OPisms will soon be added to the Urban Dictionary. :smile:

 

[DebinGA]

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01675/SNN1805BATH---_1675168a.jpg

OP had just brought the fan/s in when the sound of the bathroom window "sliding open" filled him with terror. In the pic above of OP's bathroom window it looks to me like the middle panel is stationary, and only the outer panels are capable of sliding and even then no more than the width of that panel. Is it even possible for OP to have heard the sound of one panel sliding open from where he was standing near the balcony doors? No imo. I guess it's too much to hope that the windows don't slide at all, but open out.

 

[whiterum]

I thought it was stated that police removed it from the scene?? I could be wrong x

The police had taken the other phones from the crime- scene but that particular phone was still in the hands of the DT at the Bail Hearing. The DT had not handed it over to the police and IMO this should be looked on as removing vital evidence from a suspected murder scene.

 

[lisasalinger]

Can't wait to find out the answer to this
Did Moller enter into evidence that these iPads had been synced ?

Sorry, Gb... I think I totally missed this question last night.

Nel described it as "commonalities" on both iPads (the iPad2 and the iPad3). And then Sales talked about how you can make that happen. So yes, they did discuss the syncing process. It was another vague presentation so my bet is we will hear more about this later.

 

[jay-jay]

I've heard reports that the air conditioning was not working either (not sure if that was in testimony or something else I read)

I'm pretty sure that was OP's reason given for bringing the fans in from the balcony. (I've actually been wondering why on earth anyone would have fans on the balcony .. but maybe that comes from me living in the UK with UK weather, it's probably what they do in SA!)

 

[lisasalinger]

The police had taken the other phones from the crime- scene but that particular phone was still in the hands of the DT at the Bail Hearing. The DT had not handed it over to the police and IMO this should be looked on as removing vital evidence from a suspected murder scene.

Especially considering that the State were the ones who found out that it existed... it's not like the Defense realized they had it and turned it over. The State figured it out. As to how they approached the Defense about this and what unfolded after that, I'm really not sure. But somehow, the Defense turned it over to them on Feb 26.

 

[lisasalinger]

Was the toilet cubicle window the frosted glass one? If so, it would explain the dimmer light from Mrs Stipp.

The bathroom windows (the 3 paneled window) are frosted. I'm not sure about the toilet room window.

Here is my thought on why the toilet room light may have looked like just a dim light to Mrs. Stipp..

We still don't know definitely what the sounds were at 3am. They could be gunshots or they could be something else. Either way, the main bathroom lights were on at that time.

If there was "some" light seen in the toilet room... maybe... part of the toilet door was exposing light to that small room. Maybe the toilet door wasn't closed yet at that time or there was a hole or something in the toilet door allowing some light in??

 

[steveml]

well now with this delay and easter week...this will never end. I can't imagine they don't have one extra person to work with the judge in case of a situation just like what happened here. between this trial and the search for MH 370 nothing moves fast enough for me.

Things do seen to run very slowly.

As daft as it may sound it's probably a cost issue. Presumably they wouldn't have the luxury of an extra assessor following the case, ready to step in immediately for a non-celebrity trial. I guess they need to be seen to be operating the same way in this trial.

They do have others they can appoint should the sickness be lengthy, however the new assessor would still need time to read the record and catch up.

 

[whiterum]

Especially considering that the State were the ones who found out that it existed... it's not like the Defense realized they had it and turned it over. The State figured it out. As to how they approached the Defense about this and what unfolded after that, I'm really not sure. But somehow, the Defense turned it over to them on Feb 26.

They used the information on the phone to make a fool out of Botha at the BH. Botha gave evidence to say that OP had not phoned for help on any of the phones. The DT were able to then contradict Botha by revealing the phone calls to Stander and Net Care making Botha look incompetent. Botha could not have known anything about these calls since the DT had not handed over the phone with the relevant information on it.

 

[Cherwell]

As daft as it may sound it's probably a cost issue. Presumably they wouldn't have the luxury of an extra assessor following the case, ready to step in immediately for a non-celebrity trial. I guess they need to be seen to be operating the same way in this trial.

They do have others they can appoint should the sickness be lengthy, however the new assessor would still need time to read the record and catch up.

I'm a little surprised that they can't continue with one assessor. Seeing as there is no "reserve" assessor, you might think that was the point of having two assessors.

 

[G.bng]

Points 1 and 2 are excellent. I totally agree with them.

For point 3, I think you may be confused about the layout. The bathroom is inside of the bedroom suite. It's just a hallway that separates the bathroom from where they were sleeping (no doors).

For points 4 & 5. From witness accounts (both Stipps) the bathroom light was on that night. When they heard the first set of bangs and looked out the window, the light was on.

Oscar claims the bedroom area was pitch black but I find it hard to believe that there wouldn't have been a tiny bit of ambient light coming from the bathroom considering it was right down a short hallway.

As for the toilet room light, it was the first we had heard from the defense that it was broken (when Mrs. Stipp was on the stand). So we'll just have to wait and see what they have to say about that. Mr. Stipp testified that the toilet room light was not on. Mrs. Stipp testified that she thought it was on but it looked dimmer than the bathroom light.

The reason why the defense would want it to be broken is because if Reeva was in that room with the lights off and the door locked, it looks a heck of a lot more like hiding than anything else. Nobody goes to pee in a dark and locked room when they have easy access to a light.

Wow, yes I most definitely did get the bit about the bedroom door wrong! Thanks for the correction. I imagined OP had meant "trapped" in the passage between the bathroom and a locked bedroom door... I found it really strange to sleep with a bedroom door locked bedroom not least in case of fire, as well as to have a key lock on the toilet door, who am I to judge anyone's strange habits, and when someone commented here that even toilet doors had key locks in SA I just took it to be normal for there. Thanks again... must read more carefully, must read more carefully, must read mo...

 

[lisasalinger]

They used the information on the phone to make a fool out of Botha at the BH. Botha gave evidence to say that OP had not phoned for help on any of the phones. The DT were able to then contradict Botha by revealing the phone calls to Stander and Net Care making Botha look incompetent. Botha could not have known anything about these calls since the DT had not handed over the phone with the relevant information on it.

Yep. But who is the fool now? In my eyes, the Defense looks horrendous for hiding evidence. I have a feeling that their explanation will be crafty... it will probably be right up there with George Anthony taking his accidently drowned granddaughter and throwing her in a swamp so that Casey didn't get in trouble for neglecting her child. :banghead:

 

[DebinGA]

Ten questions for OP: http://news.iafrica.com/sa/909880.html

I hadn't thought about Nel asking OP to explain why he didn't shoot the washing machine or the driver he thought was following him.