Trial Discussion Thread #14 - 14.03.28, Day 16

[soozieqtips]

~snipped~

My only issue--since I sometimes have trouble making out SA English was whether it was the 30th of Feb 2013--which it sounded like to me, was when Nel noted on Tuesday's onset of court proceeding--was when he said DT handed over the phone to the Pros./cops.

BBM - couldn't possibly have been the 30th, because February has 28 days in it, unless it's a leap year, which wasn't one last year.

 

[MeeBee]

BBM....personalizing......change first "you" to a "the" and the "you'll" to a "we'll". LOL

just a friendly fyi........:facepalm:

We're not allowed to tell other posters how to post. If something bothers you you're supposed to just report it and let it be handled by the mods.

 

[steveml]

We're not allowed to tell other posters how to post. If something bothers you you're supposed to just report it and let it be handled by the mods.

Thanks MeeBee.

Agreed. It's been mentioned more than once by moderators.

 

[Really?]

Yeah...I got carried away a bit...:blushing: My bad attempt at humor.

Anyway.....OP's version had more changes..I think he later said he spoke with Reeva just before he brought the fans in. Negating his earlier story of going to sleep at 10PM.

 

[Trooper]

the balance of possibilities.. . .re the balance of probabilities..


lots of faux logarithms have been posed re the chances of 5 people hearing the same sound, ( that is.. the one sound emanating from the one person, with 5 hearers)


the idea that if one hears it as a female, ( and is mistaken) that 4 others will make the same mistake.. since it is a suggested it is a male screaming.


the balance of probabilities goes against this theory.. if 5 unconnected people hear a sound and register it as a female screaming, and then go on to designate a quality to it.. ie. pain, terror, fear, prolonged , bloodcurdling, .. all these qualities designating a certain circumstance.. the hearers define that it isn't a woman screaming loudly for her dog or screaming loudly in delight, or screaming loudly in anger. then the balance of probabilities weighs heavily on that being the actual case..


the balance of possibilities, are ,.. that Oscar can perform this, . the exact imitation of this sound of that woman screaming, in pain, terror, fear , bloodcurdling etc, is remote.

two people in the witness stand have been asked about this 'test' of Oscars.. Mrs Van Der Mewre, who stated she heard nothing in regard to the test..meaning, the testers couldn't reach the pitch and sound the witness heard 14, feb, 2013.

Ditto Mrs Stipp. she knew exactly what she was hearing on 14thfeb, AND what she was hearing during the 'test'... neither bore the remotest similarity to each other.


balance of probability??? they heard what they testified to and they heard it when they testified they heard it..

balance of possibility?? .... Oscar has not managed to achieve that feat of 'screaming' exactly or even close to what Reeva screamed like and why she screamed like she did. Because he cant..

If he can do it---> it means HE HEARD HER SCREAMING.. he cannot reproduce a sound he has nowhere stated he heard that night.
Oscar never heard a sound out of Reeva on Feb 14th.. not a single sound. He cant even reproduce what the earwitnesses heard to his legal team.. how can he?? he heard nothing except the 'sound of the window sliding'..

 

[Trooper]

What if....lets say....OP never retrieved any fans.

Never closed the drapes/doors/blinds.

He woke suddenly to the sound of something in the bathroom that sounded as if the window was being opened.

He forgot in his waking haze that Reeva was staying over......we know the rest.

Anyway.....would this be more believable..?

So many stories...embellishments and changes to what happened according to OP. First they went to sleep at 10PM...then, oh yeah thats it.....he had just spoken to her before retrieving the fan.....er.....I meant the 2 fans.

I put it to us that the "loud talking" heard one hour prior to the "incident" was a lovers quarrel that escalated to murder.

its a good place to start.. I don't believe any of that malarkey re the fans.. it was interesting in the Van STaden series of pics, and his testimony that a fan was still on in the bedroom. there were only 2 fans. . so he, in the dark, brings this fan in, plugs it IN . in the dark, , all this shuffling around, then he 'hears the noise'....

pfffff

 

[MeeBee]

Yeah...I got carried away a bit...:blushing: My bad attempt at humor.

Anyway.....OP's version had more changes..I think he later said he spoke with Reeva just before he brought the fans in. Negating his earlier story of going to sleep at 10PM.

It's possible he simply remembered or didn't feel it was important detail the first time around and later did. I didn't take it to mean they didn't go to sleep at 10. I took that they both stirred awake at that time. I am curious what he says was said in this moment. But I think his story is they were still sleeping. This is still not a glaring inconsistency.

 

[Trooper]

Yeah...I got carried away a bit...:blushing: My bad attempt at humor.

Anyway.....OP's version had more changes..I think he later said he spoke with Reeva just before he brought the fans in. Negating his earlier story of going to sleep at 10PM.

Why do you think Roux let him, or suggested he do that, Really?? heh..


more importantly. when , precisely did he change it....

 

[MeeBee]

I am reminded of the George Zimmerman trial. Putting aside my personal feelings, I remember the prosecution trying to make a to do about inconsistencies in George's statements and recounting of the incident. The officer was on the stand, testifying for the state and was asked whether or not be actually believed Zimmerman. The officer's answer was, devastatingly, yes. Why?

"Yesterday, officer Serino testified that he believed George Zimmerman was telling the truth. Both he and Singleton testified the inconsistencies in Zimmerman's statements to them the week of the shooting and during his re-enactment of the event did not amount to significant differences. Serino and Singleton both testified to a point I have made here repeatedly: No one recounts an event the exact same way every time. If they did, it would be suspect. Variations are not the equivalent of significant differences."

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2013/...eorge-Zimmerman-Trial-Walking-Back-the-Damage

 

[james83]

To the contrary, the Stipps' evidence is very beneficial to the defense because both Stipps heard the gunshots at 3:00 -3:10 ish and they also heard the cricket bat hitting the door at 3:17 like all the other witnesses.

I disagree

Stipp's testimony, first bangs, second bangs, Distinctly heard a man shout for help.

Oscar's story, first bangs, shouted for help, second bangs

So when Stipp heard Oscar shout for help he had yet to use the bat and Stipp had already heard both set's of noises.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I'm not sure what the purpose would be of changing the amount of fans he brought in. I mean, if he did actually change it, since I haven't personally compared the two statements, I fail to see how this is particularly incriminating. If this is the only bit that's changed then it's really not much. If he wanted to shore up his story, he could have changed much more than that to make it more believable. So far, he hasn't. Versions have not morphed, no glaring inconsistencies, nothing that has been exaggerated. He added a fan...not much there.

So what about OP's story has changed/been embellished? Isn't he maintaining that they went to bed at 10 pm?

I suppose it is because he has changed his testimony in three places and you know what is made of witnesses who change anything in their testimony. Roux eats them alive and, on occasion, accuses the witnesses of lying. I do think these changes were made with something in mind. It allows him to spend more time getting two fans in (giving RS more time to disappear to the toilet) and I think not including the bedroom was locked is very important. He had made a big point in his BH of feeling terrified because, in part, he was unable to leave the bedroom due to the door being locked. The addition of speaking to RS is very strange - how could he possibly forget he spoke to her. IMO, points to important inconsistencies in the story that he will attempt to tell on the stand. Maybe these points became apparent when he was being tutored for the cross examination. I have been pondering for days why the bedroom is no longer locked. For me that has to be very important but I just cannot think why at the moment.:banghead:

 

[steveml]

Yeah...I got carried away a bit...:blushing: My bad attempt at humor.

Anyway.....OP's version had more changes..I think he later said he spoke with Reeva just before he brought the fans in. Negating his earlier story of going to sleep at 10PM.

No worries.

Yep, I've thought about this. It could have been with a possibility of changing the time, although to know all the possible impacts this may have on the case, I feel the changes to the version would have to be lawyer led rather than himself.

 

[Trooper]

'speaking with Reeva a few moments before'....


before what?? and what does she say back to him?? 'speaking with ' implies responses back and forth.. it changes his entire story.

before he got out of bed?? before he went out on the balcony and bought in one fan??

before he bought in the other fan?

before he plugged in one fan ( in the dark) that was still blowing away when Van Rensburg went upstairs??

before he murdered her??

 

[Trooper]

Roux is under Oscars instructions at all times.

 

[Trooper]

I suppose it is because he has changed his testimony in three places and you know what is made of witnesses who change anything in their testimony. Roux eats them alive and, on occasion, accuses the witnesses of lying. I do think these changes were made with something in mind. It allows him to spend more time getting two fans in (giving RS more time to disappear to the toilet) and I think not including the bedroom was locked is very important. He had made a big point in his BH of feeling terrified because, in part, he was unable to leave the bedroom due to the door being locked. The addition of speaking to RS is very strange - how could he possibly forget he spoke to her. IMO, points to important inconcistencies in the story that he will attempt to tell on the stand. Maybe these points became apparent when he was being tutored for the cross examination. I have been pondering for days why the bedroom is no longer locked. For me that has to be very important but I just cannot think why at the moment.:banghead:

my head banging was about Reeva, in the dark, getting up and unlocking that bedroom door and carefully locking it behind her, going downstairs to the kitchen and the fridge for that salad and cheese.. no one keeps food on a hot night UPstairs even with an Air con, and his Air con was broken.

so.. IF she had the food at the time the pathologist estimates.. she had to go down stairs and get it. ( cos , according to Oscar, she is asleep up stairs at 10pm and not a sound for the rest of her very short life after that )

then come back up unlock the door, go into the bedroom, and lock it behind her.


but its a hell of a lot easier to believe that door was not locked, never locked, and whatever locks there may once have been on the bedroom door, they were well and truly inoperative for some time before Feb 14th

 

[steveml]

Roux is under Oscars instructions at all times.

This is why I think it unlikely that it was changed without any specific intent to counter the states claims.

To be aware of the impact this could potentially have on the case, to the level that some are suggesting,
would in my view require far more intelligence than I'm currently prepared to credit OP with.

 

[Trooper]

what would be the purpose of changing it if NOT to counter the prosecution indictment?

no purpose whatsoever, is what. And that applies to each change individually and collectively

none
zero
zip

 

[Interested Bystander]

As I keep running through what happened I think how unfortunate it was that Dr or Mrs Stipp didn't take a photo of the back of OP's house with the lights on etc. Most cellphones have cameras these days. I guess Dr Stipp was in a hurry to help whoever was in trouble and the scene did not seem important then. Call me suspicious (LOL) . I definitely would have taken a quick photo but that may be because I find the law and evidence quite fascinating.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Good [

my head banging was about Reeva, in the dark, getting up and unlocking that bedroom door and carefully locking it behind her, going downstairs to the kitchen and the fridge for that salad and cheese.. no one keeps food on a hot night UPstairs even with an Air con, and his Air con was broken.

so.. IF she had the food at the time the pathologist estimates.. she had to go down stairs and get it. ( cos , according to Oscar, she is asleep up stairs at 10pm and not a sound for the rest of her very short life after that )

then come back up unlock the door, go into the bedroom, and lock it behind her.


but its a hell of a lot easier to believe that door was not locked, never locked, and whatever locks there may once have been on the bedroom door, they were well and truly inoperative for some time before Feb 14th

Good point.

 

[Trooper]

I would have to believe that Oscar sat there fiddling with his pen and said. 'awww... lemme put an S on the end of that 'fan' word.... oh yes.. .. that looks pretty... yea.. I like it..'

Likewise.. I'd have to picture Oscar again.... glasses on, frowning at the paper, bored spitless, thinking to himself ' well.. looky here.. . maybe I'll just insert this bit while Barry isn't looking ,, this bit about me speaking with Reeva a 'few moments before'.. yea.. and if any one asks, I'll just say I said to her..um...ah... Reeva, pass me my gun, willya.. its on your side now'....


sure.