Trial Discussion Thread #15

[Gavel Rash]

No it wasnt.

 

[vansleuths]

Whatever Roux is trying to do, the state have been through every message and every text.
They've played their hand, and are probably as surprised as me that they haven't found anything more incriminating.
They don't get another chance with the messages, those were all they could find.

You sure about that? On one of the posts, I read that the PT entered into evidence all of the text messages, so couldn't they start bringing up messages when OP comes up on the stand?

 

[Gavel Rash]

I think you got given a compliment ;-)

'Another doing the rounds is of a man who reported his car stolen. After questioning by Roux, however, he was no longer sure he had ever owned a car.'

 

[minor4th]

You sure about that? On one of the posts, I read that the PT entered into evidence all of the text messages, so couldn't they start bringing up messages when OP comes up on the stand?

They can.

 

[minor4th]

Snipped

Wow. I wouldn't say that means nothing. You've conveniently forgotten his past history involving guns, certain idiotic incidents (esp the one where he went into action on the sound of his washing machine!). Just like in other high profile cases we see a predictor in past actions - jodi arias slashed Travis Alexander's tires before she slashed HIM to death, and George Zimmerman went on to pull out his gun or threaten to use his gun in a domestic with his gf after he shot trayvon Martin.

http://www.dangerassessment.net/upl...ality_Risk_Assessment_Instrument-Campbell.pdf

 

[Viper]

If what Gavel says about deleting the "bedroom doors locked", and I have no reason not to believe him/her, this is very significant!!!

 

[minor4th]

If what Gavel says about deleting the "bedroom doors locked", and I have no reason not to believe him/her, this is very significant!!!

Ok, there's a big difference in saying it in one statement and not mentioning it in a later statement compared to - saying it's locked in one statement and then saying it's unlocked in another. Trying to find out which it is and don't have the energy to go look at the statements right now.

 

[Gavel Rash]

Also I was sure it was stated in court, that the 2 fans were not plugged in. Neither of them. So no noise.

 

[soozieqtips]

3.25 am I the Uk and I have to be up at 6.30 am. Gotta go.

OMG. I didn't change the clocks and thought it was an hour earlier. Damn. Have to be up at 7am.

Night night peeps!!

 

[Viper]

Ok, there's a big difference in saying it in one statement and not mentioning it in a later statement compared to - saying it's locked in one statement and then saying it's unlocked in another. Trying to find out which it is and don't have the energy to go look at the statements right now.

I'm frozen actually. If I go and confirm it, then I was right about so many things. I think I will let the suspence linger for at least another beer! :smile:

 

[Gavel Rash]

http://www.pod702.co.za/Eyewitnessnews/docs/130219oscar_papers.pdf

http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2014/03/world/document-pistorius-plea-statement/

PRESTO!

 

[MeeBee]

From what you have said there, it seems that you do not have a very in depth knowledge or understanding of how these types of relationships work .. particularly the bits I have put in bold.

Lol...:facepalm:

 

[curiousjo]

1. Pistorius Affadavit 2/2013:

During the early morning hours of 14 February 2013, I woke up, went onto the balcony to bring the ]fan in and closed the sliding doors, the blinds and the curtains. I heard a noise in the bathroom and realised that someone was in the bathroom.
I felt a sense of terror rushing over me. There are no burglar bars across the bathroom window and I knew that contractors who worked at my house had left the ladders outside. Although I did not have my prosthetic legs on I have mobility on my stumps.
I believed that someone had entered my house. I was too scared to switch a light on.
I grabbed my 9mm pistol from underneath my bed. On my way to the bathroom I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house and for Reeva to phone the police. It was pitch dark in the bedroom and I thought Reeva was in bed.
I noticed that the bathroom window was open. I realised that the intruder/s was/were in the toilet because the toilet door was closed and I did not see anyone in the bathroom. I heard movement inside the toilet. The toilet is inside the bathroom and has a separate door.
It filled me with horror and fear of an intruder or intruders being inside the toilet. I thought he or they must have entered through the unprotected window. As I did not have my prosthetic legs on and felt extremely vulnerable, I knew I had to protect Reeva and myself. I believed that when the intruder/s came out of the toilet we would be in grave danger. I felt trapped as my bedroom door was locked and I have limited mobility on my stumps.
I fired shots at the toilet door and shouted to Reeva to phone the police. She did not respond and I moved backwards out of the bathroom, keeping my eyes on the bathroom entrance. Everything was pitch dark in the bedroom and I was still too scared to switch on a light. Reeva was not responding.
When I reached the bed, I realised that Reeva was not in bed. That is when it dawned on me that it could have been Reeva who was in the toilet. I returned to the bathroom calling her name. I tried to open the toilet door but it was locked. I rushed back into the bedroom and opened the sliding door exiting onto the balcony and screamed for help.
Challenges to Pistorius defense Cameras allowed in Pistorius trial
I put on my prosthetic legs, ran back to the bathroom and tried to kick the toilet door open. I think I must then have turned on the lights. I went back into the bedroom and grabbed my cricket bat to bash open the toilet door. A panel or panels broke off and I found the key on the floor and unlocked and opened the door. Reeva was slumped over but alive.
I battled to get her out of the toilet and pulled her into the bathroom. I phoned Johan Stander ("Stander") who was involved in the administration of the estate and asked him to phone the ambulance. I phoned Netcare and asked for help. I went downstairs to open the front door.
I returned to the bathroom and picked Reeva up as I had been told not to wait for the paramedics, but to take her to hospital. I carried her downstairs in order to take her to the hospital. On my way down Stander arrived. A doctor who lives in the complex also arrived. Downstairs, I tried to render the assistance to Reeva that I could, but she died in my arms.

---http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/19/world/africa/south-africa-pistorius-affadavit/

==============================================================================================================
2. Pistorius Plea Statement 2014 - No comment this time regarding bedroom door locked or unlocked. He does state fans, elaborates on the bathroom noise ("bathroom window sliding opening") and comments that he had "shortly before spoken to R in bed".

---http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/03/world/document-pistorius-plea-statement/

 

[Rumpole]

I put it to you that I am no more doggedly determined than any other poster here. We all have strong opinions and we all like to share them

And...

Most forum posters have a presumption of guilt. That is not necessary a criticism. I am simply stating a fact. Easy to see if you look back at case discussion at this and other forums. It seems to be common human nature. The chat and gossip around the water-cooler at work (or ladies coffee groups) always seems to involve a presumption of guilt too. Understandable since defendants are not chosen at random. Most ARE guilty. Many are universally despised.
Forum bickering and handbag fights do seem to flare up only for cases where the defendant is not despised by all. Where some can view the evidence in the context of "Presumed innocent until proven guilty"

 

[MeeBee]

Why not name the "people" you are referring to instead of lumping anyone who can't agree with you, for their own distinct reasons, as having "double standards"?

And have you never "remembered" something that turned out to be that you heard it from someone else ? I once enthusiastically went and said hello to a very famous actor in a restaurant convinced I knew them... luckily my partner of the time realised I only "knew" them from films and managed to extricate me before I made an even bigger fool of myself than I already had. Or have you never sworn blind to your spouse, parent, child, sibling, that you did or told them something only to realise later that you never had... and would you say sorry or just keep schtum to not let them know how you "lied" (your definition not mine) or would you own up to making a mistake (my definition not yours) just like Mrs Stipps owned up to her mistake and corrected her statement?

We're not allowed to name people, only speak in general terms. It's part of the rules.

 

[MeeBee]

You've got to admit she's a bit coy though. C'mon be fair.

If you saw your own hand and was asked if it was your hand, I'd really hope you'd say yes, and not be evasive. After all, there's no reason to be.

Oldwage asks: 'Is that your hand'?
Mrs Stipp answers: 'It looks like my hand.'

What is wrong with this woman! :banghead:

That's why I find her testimony suspect. She was defensive the whole time, qualified everything, even questions that were pretty harmless. Jodi did this too. "Yeah, that looks like me," Didn't want to give an inch even on small matters because she just didn't Juan to be right on anything and wound up getting caught up in small lies that called her whole testimony into question. If you are honest and forthcoming the entire time people will not question your bias or honesty. If you act defensive the entire time that's a red flag, IMO.

 

[MeeBee]

There was crying heard after the last volley, not screams which would account for any mistake on identifying the sex of the cryer. Re security, he called Stander(not security) first, then Netcare(which lasted 66 seconds, is that even long enough for it to get properly answered let alone give advice? 911 you need to say what service you need, police, ambulance, fire then they redirect your call), then he called security and still had a few minutes to spare before everyone showed up at his door at approximately 3:25.

As for why he called Netcare, until we have heard from Netcare saying they indeed spoke to him and directed OP to take a headshot victim to the hospital himself, I'm guessing just so it showed up on his phone records because why else would he, he said he'd told his estate manager to call them a minute before, right? I need to review the phone record stuff again, but did Stander ever call his own security patrol to meet him and Clarice at OP's or did that all occur because of OP's concerned neighbours?

No, he did call security first, even though security was mistaken and thought he called Oscar first. Oscar called, security called back.

According to records, OP called Netcare. Regardless of what he said or what they told him, he called them. I had the idea at first that he was trying to hide the body but just couldn't swing it when I found out he did in fact call security deist and did in fact call netcare, contrary to popular opinion.

ETA: ok, I just realized you were talking about the overall order of the calls. In that case, yes Stander was the first person he called. But, it still does not stand to reason that he would call security or Netxare if he was planning on hiding the crime. Just cannot get there.

 

[Mystymiss]

I maybe wrong but didn't OP say after he got the fan and closed the sliding glass door and curtains the room was pitch black when he heard the so called intruder in the toilet room but he was to scared to open the lights! So the room was pitch black but he went to retrieve his gun from under the bed (from the same side of the bed RV in on) So at the bed he couldn't see that RV was on or off the the bed but he had no problem finding his little gun in that darken room????? Makes no sense!!!! JMO

 

[Harmony 2]

Has there been any evidence - or even any rumors - that Oscar has ever acted violently or physically harmed anyone in a jealous rage?

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/pistorius-had-a-bad-temper/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...accused-assault-slammed-broke-door-party.html

 

[sorrell skye]

At the bottom of page 6, the locked doors are still there.

http://www.pod702.co.za/Eyewitnessnews/docs/130219oscar_papers.pdf

Viper - that's the bail hearing affidavit from 2013.