Trial Discussion Thread #17

[MeeBee]

Oooooh nooooo! Just what kind/type of was OP looking at? Going out on a limb here but... Gay?

Probably just your typical .

 

[soozieqtips]

I don't recall him complaining of thumping his neck. Have you got a link please?

She wasn't thumping it. She was tapping it, but it annoyed OP, just like the gum chewing, the accents, the pony tail, the talking to waiters for too long, the dressing 'too casually', the touching someone's arm... the list goes on.

 

[MeeBee]

The piece was unclear imo, but I think "this evidence" includes the entire history gleaned from the "mobiles"... not specifically the /car search.

I got the impression it was the . What else could it be?

 

[soozieqtips]

Clip from one of OP's messages:

"I'm sorry I asked you to stop tapping my neck yesterday"

 

[DebinGA]

Yes, I'm trying to work out what she was responding to when she said that and what prompted her to say it. When I look at the messages, the one in which she says that, there is no message from OP inbetween or anything .. so I wonder why she ended up saying that at that particular juncture?

Just one of many times he'd let her know her behavior/appearance wasn't good enough. At 29 RS was older than OP and much older than the teens he preferred, so barbs about her appearance must have really hurt.

 

[K.T]

The piece was unclear imo, but I think "this evidence" includes the entire history gleaned from the "mobiles"... not specifically the /car search.

I don't recall the prosecution saying anything directly about the , it was not directly commented apon just the list was up on the screens? Anything thing for more alert recorders to confirm

Have to add I'm just entertained by this whole porny conversation. It's kind of hilarious. I checked out you**** (yep, thank me for my intense research, lol ) and its just an average, boring site with nothing different or really different in kink. Look at the favourites list and there's nothing much but standard hetero .

I totally don't think watching for two twenty year olds is strange. What I do think is interesting is the timing, it was accessed almost twenty minutes after Pistorius gets in the house. Perhaps there's an element of self-soothing happening for Pistorius, it seems as if he upset by that "hurdle" Steenkamp referenced, is sometimes used like having a drink etc. as a relaxant or crutch.

 

[steveml]

Can I perhaps just make it clear that when answers or opinions are given that may seem a bit unfavorable towards Reeva, or favorable towards OP's case, it should in no way be assumed that the person making the comment is undermining Reeva.

This couldn't be further from the truth.

I haven't seen one post that has been disrespectful to Reeva from the beginning of this thread to today. I think we're all sensible enough to realise this and hope we can all stick to topic.

 

[MeeBee]

My :twocents:, the fact that she put all those in texts tells me RS either wanted some form of record for what had been happening, or she didn't feel she could confront OP directly with what she was upset about(possibly because she was scared of how he would react which she had also stated in one of the texts), and quite possibly for both those reasons.

I've been upset about more than a few things with my husband(and vice versa him with me), but there has never been anything that we haven't been able to deal with face to face even though I knew some of it would likely anger him. Iow's our relationship, although sometimes testy, has never given either of us cause to fear each other so that we felt the only way to communicate safely was through messaging. That alone raises suspicions that all was not right with them and provides context imo.

Personally, for me, I have trouble telling people my feelings face to face. It just makes me nervous, and it says nothing about the person that I'm trying to tell it to. I get embarrassed and don't say what I'm feeling. It's much easier for me to write things down. Sometimes I'll even wait until my husband goes to work before I Facebook him or email him about something that had been bothering me. That's just how I deal with things. Some people probably feel it's easier to get everything out without having to tell the person face to face.

 

[jay-jay]

Yes, and all I was saying that, to me, it doesn't matter whether she was actually tapping or stroking him. That's all.

I kind of think I know enough about abusive relationships, both physical and emotional, to comment on the matter, too. I was also abused as a child into my teen years.

They are two different types of abuse though .. and with child abuse, you would've have been exchanging the types of texts that Reeva and OP were .. but in adult abusive relationships, those types of exchanges (particularly text and email exchanges, nowadays) are commonplace. They can't just be dismissed and they are an extremely good indicator of that relationship, how it was going wrong, and just how it was deteriorating. They are basically Reeva's testimony from the grave.

 

[Viper]

Probably just your typical .

"Typical" in this case would be of men with young blonde women. I appreciate that you informed me of this. But for the State to use the to prove their relationship was not loving I would have to go with gay , can't really see any other option.

 

[soozieqtips]

I agree that the long message on 27/01 provided a good indication of how Reeva was feeling at that time. It was as if she wanted to get everything off her chest.

Some people let things pass rather than saying anything, and it does all build up to the point that they need to put their feelings across all at once.

The thing to note here is that this was Reeva showing anger and frustration towards OP, and rightly so, but we can tell a lot by OP's response.

OP didn't turn aggressor and turn it all back on Reeva. He wasn't even sarcastic or impolite towards her. He apologised, said his conduct was unacceptable and wanted to sort things out.

This can be a no-win situation as one can either say 'yep, he handled that in the correct way', or 'that's what guys like this do, they belittle you and apologise'.

How should OP have responded?

I would have worried if future messages indicated rowing and disagreement regarding these same problems, but there didn't seem to be anything in the later messages to indicate that they hadn't sorted out these problems.

BBM - Actually, there was one instance where he apologised and then negated that apology by complaining that Reeva had carried on talking to someone when she 'knew' he was upset. When an apology is followed by justification of the action, it's not really an apology at all. Then there was the instance he apologised for driving fast (as he knew it upset her) but again negated that apology by saying it was because he had to go and pick up HER friend. His apologies seem quite shallow to me.

 

[MeeBee]

They are two different types of abuse though .. and with child abuse, you would've have been exchanging the types of texts that Reeva and OP were .. but in adult abusive relationships, those types of exchanges (particularly text and email exchanges, nowadays) are commonplace. They can't just be dismissed and they are an extremely good indicator of that relationship, how it was going wrong, and just how it was deteriorating. They are basically Reeva's testimony from the grave.

I had also been in an abusive relationship when I was a teen.

 

[steveml]

"Typical" in this case would be of men with young blonde women. I appreciate that you informed me of this. But for the State to use the to prove their relationship was not loving I would have to go with gay , can't really see any other option.

I'm not sure this is relevant Viper.

 

[jay-jay]

Can I perhaps just make it clear that when answers or opinions are given that may seem a bit unfavorable towards Reeva, or favorable towards OP's case, it should in no way be assumed that the person making the comment is undermining Reeva.

This couldn't be further from the truth.

I haven't seen one post that has been disrespectful to Reeva from the beginning of this thread to today. I think we're all sensible enough to realise this and hope we can all stick to topic.

Neither have I .. did someone say there has been?

 

[MeeBee]

"Typical" in this case would be of men with young blonde women. I appreciate that you informed me of this. But for the State to use the to prove their relationship was not loving I would have to go with gay , can't really see any other option.

Lol...

I don't know what kind of it is and I think filling in the blanks is probably not advised. The search was for 'you****'. Don't know what he looked at after that. I'm thinking it's more likely it was just regular . Don't know why it has to be gay .

 

[Gbtaketwo]

.. but my point is that you don't even need to have been in an abusive relationship to start recognising controlling and abusive behaviour. I never had an abusive relationship in my life, until I met my abusive and violent ex partner at the age of 46, and it took about a month for all the signs to start creeping in and for me to start thinking .. uh oh .. there is something really odd going on here. No-one in an abusive relationship will ever notice anything untoward in the first couple of weeks or so of that relationship, because if you did you would be off like a shot .. the abuser will always be on their best behaviour then until such time as you have fallen for them hook, line and sinker .. and then it starts .. and by that time (even a couple of months in) you can't get out of it that easily. It is a known fact that the most dangerous time in an abusive relationship is the time when the abuser knows that the other person is about to leave that relationship and it is a known fact that that is the time when most women who are killed in a DV relationship, is when they have ended it/trying to get away.



I wouldn't have said she was 'easy going' or not strong willed .. she definitely appeared to be forgiving .. but it's clear from her messages that she didn't stand any nonsense and was a very strong woman .. and I think this is what caused the problem with OP, and I think it was exactly because Reeva was strong willed and determined that annoyed him and set him off. She may well have been about to leave that relationship, after a blazing row .. and therefore would've been the most dangerous time for her in that relationship.

I accept what you are saying
I feel very lucky that I have never been in any kind of abusive relationship ( physical or verbally ) and wholeheartedly sympathise with you and any one that has .
On that basis any opinions I have are just my own feelings or how I imagine it may be.
I do totally agree that splitting up can be the most dangerous time for this sort of relationship as I read many distressing cases all the time sadly and am sometimes appalled by the short sentences in the UK for such crimes.

Reeva made the point of saying how she was always trying to please him which was what made me think that she was easier going certainly more so than me
I accept that she challenged him when things became too much whereas I would respond at the time of any minor thing that bothered me and not wait until there was a long list of things We are all so different in how we deal with relationships . My daughters are both very different one is very placid and overly tolerant the other younger one is very strong willed and obstinate .
He seems to have had a lot of younger girlfriend's who were perhaps more impressionable and less likely to challenge him so I do agree it would be a big change for him and not something that he would take kindly to if pushed .
Which again is JMOO what likely happened and unless I hear more info in the trial that will likely be my view here.

 

[jay-jay]

I had also been in an abusive relationship when I was a teen.

.. and did you exchange lots of texts and emails?

 

[BritsKate]

I agree that the long message on 27/01 provided a good indication of how Reeva was feeling at that time. It was as if she wanted to get everything off her chest.

Some people let things pass rather than saying anything, and it does all build up to the point that they need to put their feelings across all at once.

The thing to note here is that this was Reeva showing anger and frustration towards OP, and rightly so, but we can tell a lot by OP's response.

OP didn't turn aggressor and turn it all back on Reeva. He wasn't even sarcastic or impolite towards her. He apologised, said his conduct was unacceptable and wanted to sort things out.

This can be a no-win situation as one can either say 'yep, he handled that in the correct way', or 'that's what guys like this do, they belittle you and apologise'.

How should OP have responded?

I would have worried if future messages indicated rowing and disagreement regarding these same problems, but there didn't seem to be anything in the later messages to indicate that they hadn't sorted out these problems.

RBBM

I don't think we can in all honesty. My ex wrote me love letters, cried on his knees begging me to forgive him, and told me I was beautiful everyday. He also told me I was stupid, set our house on fire, and disabled my car to prevent me from leaving while he proceeded to smash our furniture. To outsiders, he appeared to adore me. Very often, emotional abusers are charming enough that friends and family will be none the wiser to the abuse - until and unless it escalates. It's part of the reason why victims don't necessarily recognise abuse. Everybody else keeps telling you how great your significant other is. That Myers and Steenkamp both interceded on Reeva's behalf is telling to me.

(Not to compare my relationship to Reeva's but to highlight that abusers keep their victims in the relationship by appearing remorseful, loving, complimentary and apologetic. If they were gits all the time, no one would stay. It's a constant see-saw. Over time though, an erosion of confidence occurs and the victim usually blames him/herself for the abusive behaviors instead of calling out the abuser for their behavior.)



MOO

 

[steveml]

BBM - Actually, there was one instance where he apologised and then negated that apology by complaining that Reeva had carried on talking to someone when she 'knew' he was upset. When an apology is followed by justification of the action, it's not really an apology at all. Then there was the instance he apologised for driving fast (as he knew it upset her) but again negated that apology by saying it was because he had to go and pick up HER friend. His apologies seem quite shallow to me.

I understand how that can be perceived Soozie.

I think we all have our different ways of interpretation.

No worries :smile:

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Oooooh nooooo! Just what kind/type of was OP looking at? Going out on a limb here but... Gay?

I didn't have a thought of the possibility! But now!!!