Trial Discussion Thread #17

[Gbtaketwo]

So, from the rods, it looks to me like he shot from where I've marked the XX on this photo

If I was to guess where he was stood I would say more where Steve placed him yesterday which was further forward into the room.I think he used a rather nice gingerbread man to illustrate with.
But that is just moo

 

[Viper]

So which of these shots has the State said was the first shot?

Second from the left. You are looking at the OUTSIDE of the door. Do you follow me now that OP fired that first shot and then moved to the left and to the right of it to fire the other three bullets?

 

[steveml]

I hadn't seen those - I think we were not shown those live during the trial. These are from the perspective inside the cubicle right? So it does look like he was shooting from right where the hallway meets the bathroom, so he would have at least had a little bit of cover from that position - as opposed to the Rambo position of right out in the open in front of the door

I agree. He looks to be shooting at an angle that follows a line from the hallway to to the cubicle, and not from over near the bath opposite the door. This is where you'd stand if you thought someone was in the cubicle, and could come out at any moment. It keeps you out of the line of fire from the door, gives you the most time to respond, and keeps the nearest exit corner clear should the intruder take you by surprise.

Near the bath, directly opposite the door is where you'd stand if you had nothing to fear from behind the door, or knew exactly what was behind the door.

 

[sorrell skye]

One in four women will end up in an abusive relationship at some point in their lives (in the UK) .. so I think that points to one heck of a lot of abusive men out there ... it is basically just the luck of the draw whether you end up in one or not, or whether you end up in further abusive relationships. I never in a million years thought that I would end up in one .. I've never been one to stand any nonsense from anyone, and yet it still happened to me at the age of 46.

BBM

I think it can be the luck of the draw whether or not someone encounters/meets an abusive person/potential date.

But I disagree that it's the luck of the draw if someone enters into an abusive relationship. Awareness & perception of abuse is crucial, in order to avoid entering into an abusive relationship.

By relationship I mean a monogamous, exclusive partnership, rather than an uncommitted, dating arrangement.

It's important to be able to recognize the warning signs of an abusive personality, so that one does not enter into a relationship with that person. All too often, nonphysical abuse is dismissed, ignored, minimized, excused, or justified.

One of the problems has been the lack of education and awareness pertaining to the warning signs of abusive characteristics, which leads to dismissal or denial of the early warning signs. Thankfully, awareness of emotional/psychological/verbal abuse is growing due to the increase in outreach programs. Defining abuse has been one of the primary objectives in changing the perception of abuse. As the definition of abuse has broadened to include more than physical violence, awareness of abuse has grown.

Emotional/psychological/verbal abuse can be (but not always) a precursor to potential physical violence if other factors are also present. In my experience, if the perpetrator of emotional/psychological/verbal abuse is prone to extreme jealousy/possessiveness, rage, temper tantrums, destruction of property (their own or the victim's), has threatened violence against the victim or against others, the likelihood of physical aggression in an intimate relationship increases, as the emotional/psychological/verbal abuse escalates.

The following link to the Mayo Clinic has some good information:

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/adult-health/in-depth/domestic-violence/art-20048397?p=1

This UK link also has useful information:

http://www.hiddenhurt.co.uk/domestic_violence.html

 

[minor4th]

Still unsure which of those shots was supposed to be the first one, according to the state.

For some reason it looks completely differently to me looking at it from this perspective compared to the other side as the door was shown in court

 

[MeeBee]

That image shows OP in front of shower door imo, not beside and to the left of the vanity wall, i.e. very near the "hall".

The illustration merely shows the angle where the shots were coming from. Just a bit further back and he's by the hall wall.

 

[steveml]

If I was to guess where he was stood I would say more where Steve placed him yesterday which was further forward into the room.I think he used a rather nice gingerbread man to illustrate with.
But that is just moo

Yep, I tend to think he was a bit closer inwards due to the angle of the first left bullet hole on the door. It's quite clear he wasn't facing the door though.

p.s I'm never using that gingerbread man again after all the stick I got lol

 

[minor4th]

View attachment 42526

Says invalid attachment

 

[steveml]

Still unsure which of those shots was supposed to be the first one, according to the state.

For some reason it looks completely differently to me looking at it from this perspective compared to the other side as the door was shown in court

That's exactly right. It gives you a false perspective. Those lines do not look at such an angle when it's presumed OP only shot from very near the door. PT made sure of that.

When you extend those rods to the length where OP probably shot from, the width of that angle becomes much more apparent.

 

[MeeBee]

Says invalid attachment

Gah it's working for me. Must be my iPad. I'll just link it.


http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/03/22/oscar-pistorius-trial-days-12-and-13/

Theres a really good shot of the rods from the top that for some reason I'm having trouble finding.

ETA: the one with the lasers is interesting. Looks like he's got it sitting near the wall as well.

 

[sorrell skye]

From those rods, it does not look like he moved at all while firing the shots. They are closely grouped

At the very least, it appears (IMO) that he moved his aim, even if he didn't move his physical stance while firing.

 

[minor4th]

Gah it's working for me. Must be my iPad. I'll just link it.


http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/03/22/oscar-pistorius-trial-days-12-and-13/

Theres a really good shot of the rods from the top that for some reason I'm having trouble finding.

ETA: the one with the lasers is interesting. Looks like he's got it sitting near the wall as well.

I don't know if this is the pic you were referring to but it's from Lisa's blog on that page you linked

Is Point "A" the one the State says was the first shot and hit her in the hip?

 

[MeeBee]

At the very least, it appears (IMO) that he moved his aim, even if he didn't move his physical stance while firing.

From the top they're all in line except for one which is just ever so slightly different. That supports the gap: OP shooting, stopping, putting his hand down, then picking it up and firing three more times.

 

[minor4th]

At the very least, it appears (IMO) that he moved his aim, even if he didn't move his physical stance while firing.

I don't see that at all - the fact that they are not one on top of the other is just because the hand doesn't return to the exact same position after firing each shot IMO

 

[DebinGA]

The illustration merely shows the angle where the shots were coming from. Just a bit further back and he's by the hall wall.

Any evidentiary reason to push him back toward the hall, instead of keeping him right there in front of the shower door?

 

[minor4th]

Gah it's working for me. Must be my iPad. I'll just link it.


http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/03/22/oscar-pistorius-trial-days-12-and-13/

Theres a really good shot of the rods from the top that for some reason I'm having trouble finding.

ETA: the one with the lasers is interesting. Looks like he's got it sitting near the wall as well.

Looks like he has it in exactly the position we were talking about - right by the corner, where the hallway meets the bathroom.

 

[MeeBee]

Any evidentiary reason to push him back toward the hall, instead of keeping him right there in front of the shower door?

Because that is just a media illustration, not a scientific one put forth by the state. The trajectory, at the very least, supports a trajectory of him having fired from near the hallway.

 

[MeeBee]

Looks like he has it in exactly the position we were talking about - right by the corner, where the hallway meets the bathroom.

Exactly. Kind of near the corner there.

 

[sorrell skye]

Still unsure which of those shots was supposed to be the first one, according to the state.

For some reason it looks completely differently to me looking at it from this perspective compared to the other side as the door was shown in court

In order to determine which bullet was first, the bullet holes through the door must be looked at in conjunction with Reeva's injuries, which is what Captain Mangena did.

 

[minor4th]

In order to determine which bullet was first, the bullet holes through the door must be looked at in conjunction with Reeva's injuries, which is what Captain Mangena did.

Right, I understand - I'm just asking which one they said was first. Was it "A"?