Trial Discussion Thread #17

[MeeBee]

Yes.

BTW. OP is not the only killer to successfully shoot victims that they cannot see that are behind a door. A two minute Google review pulled up pages of similar shootings, I grabbed a few for the Forum!


http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_24504890/woman-shot-through-door-her-home

http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/19338567/woman-shot-through-door-of-northeast-atlanta-home

http://www.examiner.com/article/man-charged-with-murder-of-woman-shot-through-door-of-home

http://www.suntimes.com/news/crime/...gh-door-of-oak-park-apartment-police-say.html

Um, that kind of proves my point. Killing someone through a door isn't exactly a feat of skill. You fire, you hit. I don't know why it would have to involve the ability to "track a voice." (Gets more ridiculous every time I type it...)

 

[TorisMom003]

OP makes it sound as if his bedroom door being locked is a major obstacle in his way of getting to safety. How long does it take to pick up the key, unlock the door and open the door? And before someone says that it was pitch dark in his room making it more difficult to find the door key, he had no problem finding his gun in the pitch dark. I would imagine that someone who locks their bedroom door at night will put the key in the same place each time making it easier to find if they need to get to it in a hurry.

MOO

 

[minor4th]

I would say that pumping the shotgun is a form of firing off a warning shot. You let the would be intruder know that you in fact had a gun at hand and was ready to shoot.

MOO

If there had been an intruder in my house, I would for sure not fire a warning shot and then give them the chance to shoot me back. If they were in my house, I would either escape if I could do so with safety - or I would have shot to kill them or totally incapacitate them.

 

[TorisMom003]

If there had been an intruder in my house, I would for sure not fire a warning shot and then give them the chance to shoot me back. If they were in my house, I would either escape if I could do so with safety - or I would have shot to kill them or totally incapacitate them.

But what OP did, yelling for Reeva to call police and yelling to the "intruder/s" to get out of his house, can also be viewed as a form of a warning shot. OP did in fact, if his story is true, let the "intruder/s" know exactly where he was and that he was headed in their direction.

MOO

 

[minor4th]

[/B]

Trying to prevent that by not telling her to get out of the house when he first heard the noise?.

Yeah, he should have said "Reeva, RUN!!"

 

[BritsKate]

A lone, disabled bloke with a 9mm up against a gang of AK-47 wielding intruders - I know where my bet would be. I'm not trying to be snarky so apologies if it comes across as such.

It defies my logic altogether though and no matter what, I can't get past the fact that with the bedroom door locked, it's very possible Reeva had no chance of escape no matter what, or who, was lurking in the bathroom. It flies in the face of protection, imo.

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[Cherwell]

It's not natural and it just wouldn't happen, there is just no way anyone would hear a noise, pick up a gun and set off without warning, it's absurd, and the reason it's absurd is because it's a lie.

I'd like to point you into the direction of OP's "recon mode" tweet made earlier in 2012.

Going back to this, we were talking about his not asking Reeva if she had heard anything, or saying anything to her at all. That's what James meant by "without warning". The incident with the washing machine is not comparable in this respect because he was alone.

 

[soozieqtips]

He might have assumed there were multiple intruders with automatic weapons.

~snipped~

And yet he didn't look for any other intruders, did he? How did he know they weren't elsewhere in the house waiting? He killed Reeva and then went to the balcony. Why would he do that if he thought there were multiple intruders? You couldn't fit multiple intruders in that tiny toilet, so where did he think they were, and why didn't he try and find them to shoot them down afterwards? That doesn't wash with what he did afterwards, not by a long shot. Terrified there might be 'multiple' intruders but does nothing after except go to the balcony, where one of those multiple intruders could have easily come up behind him and killed him.

 

[steveml]

This seems like kind of one of those "Who are you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes?" kind of moments.

OP shot left to right, he was moving with each shot and reacquiring his aim with each shot. He fired accurately (hitting his target) 3 out of his 4 shots at a distance and at an acute angle. Here is the image of the door with the trajectory rods:

http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/35.jpg

If OP is somehow miraculously shooting by sound alone :-

How does he know where Reeva's head is? He can't see an outline of her body behind the door. If she was making a noise, then let's presume that he follows her voice. He hears Reeva's voice so he should logically aim for her head. But he doesn't. There should be a bullet hole half a body length higher than the rest. There is no head shot bullet hole on the door at all.

If he shoots her in the hip first, as I think you may have suggested, how does he know it's her hip? He still can't see her? Presuming he hit her in the hip (which he wouldn't be aware of) the next thing to happen is that Reeva would collapse. When Reeva collapses it's not in slow motion, the bullet to her hip would make her collapse instantly. Much the same as somebody fainting. We know she would not be standing up writhing as, gruesome as it sounds, the bullet took most of her hip away.

When she collapses it's a split second thing. OP still doesn't know where Reeva's head is. He doesn't have time to think 'well, she'll be falling just about now, and her head should be just about half-way down the door...' OK...I'll fire...now'

 

[Insp.Dots]

[/B]

Trying to prevent that by not telling her to get out of the house when he first heard the noise?.

I 'think' OP will respond to that by saying he wasn't thinking straight and didn't want her freaking out as she had already faced an armed intruder with her Mum. Having said that IF his version was true, she'd have been more upset waking up to gunshots!
I think every single word he says on the stand will be critical. A single slip in his story and he's doing a very long stretch.
IF the trial ends with substantial proof he has lied, Masipa will rightfully make an example of him. All MOO.

 

[soozieqtips]

Those are pretty similar statements...

No they're not. One is vague and could apply to absolutely anything.
The other is specific and refers to a window sliding open.

 

[Viper]

Um, that kind of proves my point. Killing someone through a door isn't exactly a feat of skill. You fire, you hit. I don't know why it would have to involve the ability to "track a voice." (Gets more ridiculous every time I type it...)

Um, did you open the links? IIRC of the 3 only 1 died. And none of them were shot in the head in a toilet closet by their boyfriend!!!! These people were all in their homes and were shot at an access door by unknown assailants that approached their house.

 

[TorisMom003]

If OP is somehow miraculously shooting by sound alone :-

How does he know where Reeva's head is? He can't see an outline of her body behind the door. If she was making a noise, then let's presume that he follows her voice. He hears Reeva's voice so he should logically aim for her head. But he doesn't. There should be a bullet hole half a body length higher than the rest. There is no head shot bullet hole on the door at all.

If he shoots her in the hip first, as I think you may have suggested, how does he know it's her hip? He still can't see her? Presuming he hit her in the hip (which he wouldn't be aware of) the next thing to happen is that Reeva would collapse. When Reeva collapses it's not in slow motion, the bullet to her hip would make her collapse instantly. Much the same as somebody fainting. We know she would not be standing up writhing as, gruesome as it sounds, the bullet took most of her hip away.

When she collapses it's a split second thing. OP still doesn't know where Reeva's head is. He doesn't have time to think 'well, she'll be falling just about now, and her head should be just about half-way down the door...' OK...I'll fire...now'

BBM

As has been mentioned numerous times and the video of the testimony posted as well, the hip shot first is not a theory that just popped up here on WS. The ballistics expert himself has said that the hip shot HAD to be the first shot.

 

[MeeBee]

Um, did you open the links? IIRC of the 3 only 1 died. And none of them were shot in the head in a toilet closet by their boyfriend!!!! These people were all in their homes and were shot at an access door by unknown assailants that approached their house.

I opened one and it must be the one who died then. It still proves my point. It flies in the face of needing a voice tracking skill to randomly shoot and kill someone behind a door.

 

[soozieqtips]

steve - it's fact that she was shot in the hip first. Viper is stating a fact from the trial, it's not an assumption.

 

[MeeBee]

BBM

As has been mentioned numerous times and the video of the testimony posted as well, the hip shot first is not a theory that just popped up here on WS. The ballistics expert himself has said that the hip shot HAD to be the first shot.

Steve is saying why would he shoot her in the hip first if he was shooting to kill?

 

[minor4th]

There's just not any way OP could have been aiming specifically at a voice or intentionally shot for the head.

 

[steveml]

A quick thought has just crossed my mind when the key was mentioned :idea:

OP can't use a spare key. It's simple but obvious.

The keys are inside the door in a locked position on Reeva's side.

You can't unlock a door whilst keys are in the opposite side of a lock in a locked position. The key will not go in. This is why he had no choice but to break the door down.

...I have my moments.

(I hope I'm right)

 

[TorisMom003]

There's just not any way OP could have been aiming specifically at a voice or intentionally shot for the head.

In your opinion, yes?

There is nothing that shows for a fact if OP did or did not follow Reeva's voice and fired accordingly. However, there are 4 bullet holes that show a left to right and downward angle that just happens to line up to where Reeva was at the time.

MOO

 

[TorisMom003]

A quick thought has just crossed my mind when the key was mentioned :idea:

OP can't use a spare key. It's simple but obvious.

The keys are inside the door in a locked position on Reeva's side.

You can't unlock a door whilst keys are in the opposite side of a lock in a locked position. The key will not go in. This is why he had no choice but to break the door down.

...I have my moments.

(I hope I'm right)

Then why does OP say he got the key from off the floor of the toilet room?