Trial Discussion Thread #17

[Viper]

It doesn't make any sense.

This seems like kind of one of those "Who are you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes?" kind of moments.

OP shot left to right, he was moving with each shot and reacquiring his aim with each shot. He fired accurately (hitting his target) 3 out of his 4 shots at a distance and at an acute angle. Here is the image of the door with the trajectory rods:

http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/35.jpg

 

[james83]

So we are supposed to believe that the sound of a gun, a sound that can make the shooter temporarily deaf was only heard by 2 of 5 witness's, yet a cricket bat hitting a door was heard by all of them?.

 

[MeeBee]

I think OP, gun nut that he is, grabbed one of his ear protectors when he picked up his gun, and he or one of his several surrogates returned same during the minutes before police arrived. My husband target shoots with friends only a couple of times a year, and he owns 3-4 sets.

1. If he was in such a panic that he forgets about the panic button or, really, doing anything rational, he's not gonna have the forethought to grab an ear protector.

2. Why would he want to hide something so trivial?

 

[TorisMom003]

I'm sure people fire guns while moving. It doesn't make any sense based on the evidence and just plain old logic in this trial. The trajectory does not show movement.

The trajectory shows that the gun went from a slightly downward position towards the toilet in the first shot. Second shot was up quite a bit and had moved over to the right. The third and fourth shots have then gone back to the downward angle and have moved over to the right even more and are further down on the door. I would say that clearly shows movement.

MOO

 

[lisasalinger]

Good morning, all :seeya:

I have a packed day today but just wanted to jump in real quick...

The right side of the bed that Reeva was supposedly sleeping in is extremely close to the balcony. I find it extremely hard to believe that Oscar coming in off of that balcony would not see her there - she would have been a few feet away from him.

The holster was found on the left side of the bed, up against the wall on the nightstand.

The magazine and it's carrying case were found in the drawer on the right side night stand where Oscar typically sleeps.

Interestingly, the blood spatter found on the wall behind the headboard was on the left hand side, just above the holster case.

Apparently "extremely" is my new favorite word today.

 

[james83]

If Reeva was in the bed on the side that is next to the balcony, I cannot for the life of me see how she could have got out without being in his way. Unless she rolled over to the other side and got out from there?

I still can't accept that he wouldn't say to her "did you hear that?" or something. It's just not natural, not now he's made it clear that he'd been speaking to her moments before.

It's not natural and it just wouldn't happen, there is just no way anyone would hear a noise, pick up a gun and set off without warning, it's absurd, and the reason it's absurd is because it's a lie.

 

[TorisMom003]

1. If he was in such a panic that he forgets about the panic button or, really, doing anything rational, he's not gonna have the forethought to grab an ear protector.

2. Why would he want to hide something so trivial?

Who claims that he was in such a panic? Yes, OP and his defense. Who has a reason to lie about the events that actually occurred that night? Yes, OP and his defense.

 

[minor4th]

But going towards a possibly armed intruder down a dark corridor, around two corners while on stumps is definitely more safe than attempting to go out the bedroom door and down the stairs?

Sorry, is this the Twilight Zone?

Yeah, if you're armed and ready to shoot it's safer to pro-actively stop the threat, as opposed getting shot because you can't get down the stairs.

 

[minor4th]

So we are supposed to believe that the sound of a gun, a sound that can make the shooter temporarily deaf was only heard by 2 of 5 witness's, yet a cricket bat hitting a door was heard by all of them?.

Yes - because all of them were awake already when the cricket bat hit the door. None of them were woken up by the cricket bat. Some were woken up by the gunshots and some were woken up by screaming.

 

[MeeBee]

This seems like kind of one of those "Who are you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes?" kind of moments.

OP shot left to right, he was moving with each shot and reacquiring his aim with each shot. He fired accurately (hitting his target) 3 out of his 4 shots at a distance and at an acute angle. Here is the image of the door with the trajectory rods:

http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/35.jpg

I've seen the rods, they don't show movement. The witnesses all say what they heard happened in rapid succession of each other. What you are claiming requires at least a bit of a pause between each shot which no one has reported. There's no logical reason for someone to "track a voice" when firing into such a small space and I don't see how you even could. No matter where she was standing/sitting it's all going to sound the same. If he was trying to kill her why did he aim at her lower body and wait for her to fall then aim at her head? Why not just aim high the first time if you're trying to kill someone? I could go on.

I'm not arguing this because it doesn't fit the defense case, it doesn't fit anyone's case.

 

[soozieqtips]

Yeah, if you're armed and ready to shoot it's safer to pro-actively stop the threat, as opposed getting shot because you can't get down the stairs.

And is it safer to give audio clues to your whereabouts rather than just advancing in silence?

 

[MeeBee]

It's not natural and it just wouldn't happen, there is just no way anyone would hear a noise, pick up a gun and set off without warning, it's absurd, and the reason it's absurd is because it's a lie.

I'd like to point you into the direction of OP's "recon mode" tweet made earlier in 2012.

 

[Lyra500]

I don't think it's outside of the realm of possibility that Reeva was too in shock and it happened so quick that she didn't have to time scream or react.

BBM: I think under SA law it is at the judge's discretion to decide, if she accepts his version, whether or not he acted as a reasonable person. I have posted the law and its interpretation before and that's basically what it said. Perhaps a lawyer can read it better.

So do you believe that those terrified "in fear for her life" female screams were actually OP?

 

[TorisMom003]

Yeah, if you're armed and ready to shoot it's safer to pro-actively stop the threat, as opposed getting shot because you can't get down the stairs.

Sorry but we will have to agree to disagree about this one. OP clearly can get down the stairs on just his stumps. Otherwise why would he buy a home that is two stories? Does anyone think that OP ALWAYS puts on his legs to go downstairs in the middle of the night to grab something to eat or drink? And if it is some automatic action that OP does, putting on his legs, whenever he leaves his bed then why did he go out onto the balcony without putting them on first?

Look, I can understand wanting to believe OP's story. I get it. Most people would rather think that people don't shoot their girlfriends dead on purpose. It isn't a pleasant thought to know that it does in fact happen. But this need to explain away every single piece of OP's story that is severely lacking is mind boggling to me. His story simply does not make sense.

MOO

 

[minor4th]

I'd think Oscar's disability would make him less likely to confront an intruder and more likely to flee or seek immediate help. Just basing that off my husband - who deliberately avoids certain situations likely to make his disability even more of a disadvantage. JMO

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

I don't think he was seeking out having to confront what he thought was an armed intruder. But if he really believed the situation was as he has said, it does make perfect sense that he would think his only chance of surviving and protecting Reeva would be to approach the threat and eliminate it before the damage could be done.

 

[TorisMom003]

I'd like to point you into the direction of OP's "recon mode" tweet made earlier in 2012.

And how many bullet holes does the washer sport? NONE.

 

[BritsKate]

And something else - while Oscar is disabled (to what extent is arguable) - Reeva was obviously not. My husband relies very heavily on me to be his legs and often wakes me when he needs something - so even assuming Oscar was at his most vulnerable, why wouldn't he ensure the most mobile person sought help? Why wouldn't he unlock the bedroom door and send her running, screaming for help?

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[minor4th]

Sorry but we will have to agree to disagree about this one. OP clearly can get down the stairs on just his stumps. Otherwise why would he buy a home that is two stories? Does anyone think that OP ALWAYS puts on his legs to go downstairs in the middle of the night to grab something to eat or drink? And if it is some automatic action that OP does, putting on his legs, whenever he leaves his bed then why did he go out onto the balcony without putting them on first?

Look, I can understand wanting to believe OP's story. I get it. Most people would rather think that people don't shoot their girlfriends dead on purpose. It isn't a pleasant thought to know that it does in fact happen. But this need to explain away every single piece of OP's story that is severely lacking is mind boggling to me. His story simply does not make sense.

MOO

It's not that I want to believe OP's story - but to dismiss it as false, I have to be shown something by the state that is convincing. And so far I haven't seen it.

If OP did this intentionally, I want the state to have some good evidence to prove that! Don't you?

Of course people shoot their girlfriends on purpose, and that is what I thought happened for sure until the trial started and it turns out the state doesn't have the evidence I thought they would have.

 

[james83]

Yes - because all of them were awake already when the cricket bat hit the door. None of them were woken up by the cricket bat. Some were woken up by the gunshots and some were woken up by screaming.

Can't be said as fact, and even if you do think the cricket bat sounds were at 3:17 or there about's.
VDM was woken by whatever it was she heard.
I personally don't believe any of them heard Oscar breaking the door down.

 

[MeeBee]

So do you believe that those terrified "in fear for her life" female screams were actually OP?

I think they could be.