Trial Discussion Thread #17

[Gryffindor]

I don't see how that works as the State have presented their case. OP doesn't have to take the stand and say anything, mad though that would be. The defence could just leave it and not bring any witnesses. Nel can only cross examine now, he has given the States version apart from hopefully catching OP out on the stand and asking him to explain things that are already in evidence and his summing up. MOO His chance to read out the 'explosive' text or phone call was last week.

Ah ok. I was chatting with Viper , who seems to have a different perspective, i.e.. Nel can bring up the jeans issue etc and anything else the PT have submitted into evidence

 

[Gryffindor]

I don't understand why they are using a pathologist that wasn't at the autopsy, that seems odd to me.

Apparently, the DT's pathologist WAS at the autopsy.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I don't understand why they are using a pathologist that wasn't at the autopsy, that seems odd to me.

Yes I understood Reggie Perumal was present at the autopsy .
So I was also surprised by the fact that it is another person .but I am assuming the pathologist testifying first has some sort of speciality within their field .

 

[whiterum]

Quote from Debora Patta, a South African broadcast journalist and TV producer.

"Nel is known to keep his cards close to his chest and for throwing out bombshells during his cross-examination of witnesses. Expect fireworks in court and a few surprises along the way".

As Nel said at the BH his version hasn't been tested until he gets up there on the stand. I'm sure he is being coached left, right and centre with all the questions they can possibly predict will be asked but IMO a narcissistic person like OP just can't be told what is for their own good. I'm afraid when he comes up against Nel the BS version written obviously with the help of his DT will be left in tatters.

 

[Viper]

Quote:
Lawyer Brian Webber said in an email to The Associated Press that the defence plans to start by calling Professor Jan Botha when the trial resumes Monday after a week's adjournment.

Snipped

Professor Botha will be called to contradict the viewpoint of the state's pathologist, Professor Gert Saayman, who gave graphic testimony about the gunshot wounds sustained by Ms Steenkamp.

Professor Saayman, who performed the autopsy on Pistorius' girlfriend, said there was no blood found in her airways, suggesting she breathed only a few times before dying from the wounds.

http://m.smh.com.au/world/oscar-pis...fy-first-for-defence-case-20140402-zqpj4.html

 

[soozieqtips]

I was frankly disgusted by that. That was something that should have been done long ago and in PRIVATE. smh

He can't do anything in private. He held a 'private' memorial for his beloved Reeva of which the details were mysteriously leaked to the public. Then his oh so touching message to Reeva on Valentine's Day this year (while he was already dating someone new) and now making sure he's seen to be comforting the mother of the girlfriend he shot dead. Everything he does is staged for the purpose of making him appear caring and genuine, but to me, his behaviour comes across as shallow and crass.

 

[whiterum]

I don't understand why they are using a pathologist that wasn't at the autopsy, that seems odd to me.

http://www.iol.co.za/capetimes/oscar-it-s-all-about-the-toilet-door-1.1476183#.Uz8Efye9KK0

Some information regarding this above Dots.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Quote:
Lawyer Brian Webber said in an email to The Associated Press that the defence plans to start by calling Professor Jan Botha when the trial resumes Monday after a week's adjournment.

Snipped

Professor Botha will be called to contradict the viewpoint of the state's pathologist, Professor Gert Saayman, who gave graphic testimony about the gunshot wounds sustained by Ms Steenkamp.

Professor Saayman, who performed the autopsy on Pistorius' girlfriend, said there was no blood found in her airways, suggesting she breathed only a few times before dying from the wounds.

http://m.smh.com.au/world/oscar-pis...fy-first-for-defence-case-20140402-zqpj4.html

Thanks for that .
I was expecting the food issue to be the first thing to be disputed ,maybe they will do that as well .

 

[soozieqtips]

Quote:
Lawyer Brian Webber said in an email to The Associated Press that the defence plans to start by calling Professor Jan Botha when the trial resumes Monday after a week's adjournment.

Snipped

Professor Botha will be called to contradict the viewpoint of the state's pathologist, Professor Gert Saayman, who gave graphic testimony about the gunshot wounds sustained by Ms Steenkamp.

Professor Saayman, who performed the autopsy on Pistorius' girlfriend,
said there was no blood found in her airways, suggesting she breathed only a few times before dying from the wounds.

http://m.smh.com.au/world/oscar-pis...fy-first-for-defence-case-20140402-zqpj4.html

BBM - See, this is what confuses me. Either there was blood in the airways or there was not. If these pathologists are experts in their field, surely it would make them look incompetent if they couldn't agree on something as basic as that? I'm sure there must be some aspects that can't be disputed, while other aspects could be up for interpretation. But blood in the airways, can that really be disputed?

 

[Insp.Dots]

If you watched the George Zimmerman trial it was just the opposite of what I am seeing here. The State's pathologist was a joke!!!! And the hired expert was completely credible. I just call things as I see them.

With respect, You did seem to imply previously that OP's experts are just being bought off to say whatever. I think it will be interesting. One was formerly a Police expert of very high esteem. I don't think anyone working on this case would risk their reputation let alone there freedom just to play OP's fiddle. His money has paid for the best, but even they have to work within the law.
If OP is guilty I believe the Judge will see that and act accordingly no matter how much corruption in the Country.

 

[Insp.Dots]

http://www.iol.co.za/capetimes/oscar-it-s-all-about-the-toilet-door-1.1476183#.Uz8Efye9KK0

Some information regarding this above Dots.

Thanks I hadn't seen that one and it is interesting. Though Perumal (that guy) isn't the pathologist that is going on the stand on Monday, it's a guy called Botha who WASN'T at the autopsy......that doesn't make sense to me. When Perumal actually attended?

 

[Val1]

The thing that really frustrates me in this is the complete mess that 'some' investigators who were first on the scene made. How can we be confident in the evidence when mistakes were so needlessly made. You would think that the moment they realized how big this would be and the international interest, they would be extra careful in their handling of it.
There is no excuse for it IMO they are trained to do a job. I feel sad for Reeva's parents as they deserve more, as did she. Both lawyers must also find it frustrating, and you could see that when poor Nel realized the photos were wrongly dated. It's like being given a jigsaw to complete with missing pieces......you have to complete it but you know it's impossible.
Rant over......

bbm - Sorry but I have to take issue with this. Who was first on the scene? It certainly wasn't any law enforcement, it was the estate manager and his lawyer daughter, who then blocked the security guards from entering, then Dr. Stipp who they couldn't really refuse entry to since he was the first medical person on scene, OP's brother, sister, career spin doctor, lawyers, locksmith, ambulance personnel and possibly more, iirc.

Most of all of those were already there before any law enforcement arrived so yes, they all should have been questioned, searched, had fingerprints done etc before they were allowed to leave the scene, but for all intents and purposes, OP himself had made sure that the scene was so contaminated with his support team that whatever the police may have not done re pictures pales in comparison imo.

Anything and everything in that house could have been moved/altered(tampered with) by OP, family and friends before the first police walk-thru so it was all already suspect. Don't forget, even the defense legal team deliberately tried to hide evidence so I don't get why everything seems to be getting blamed on the prosecution side.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I don't understand why they are using a pathologist that wasn't at the autopsy, that seems odd to me.

I have just had a look at that point. Apparently Professor Jan Botha (who will be appearing) was asked by Reggie Perumal to attend the autopsy. So it looks as though either Reggie Perumal was not there or they both attended.

 

[whiterum]

Thanks I hadn't seen that one and it is interesting. Though Perumal (that guy) isn't the pathologist that is going on the stand on Monday, it's a guy called Botha who WASN'T at the autopsy......that doesn't make sense to me. When Perumal actually attended?

Thanks Dots , I didn't know that, I posted this before I read the above posts. What happened with the hired Reggie then I wonder, he will probably be called later I would expect.

 

[Rumpole]

Naturally the police can only preserve the crime scene starting from when they arrive.

They can at least then evaluate what may or may not have been altered on the scene. In this case the cops were busy contaminating the crime scene themselves, so if there was anything done by others how could they even investigate, let alone prove that.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I have just had a look at that point. Apparently Professor Jan Botha (who will be appearing) was asked by Reggie Perumal to attend the autopsy. So it looks as though either Reggie Perumal was not there or they both attended.

Again that's interesting because the press reports that i read only seemed to mention Reggie . No doubt this will become clear on Monday .
I wouldn't have liked to have been the state pathologist having two defence pathologist 's watch over him if true .

 

[Insp.Dots]

Apparently, the DT's pathologist WAS at the autopsy.

Perusal WAS at the autopsy Botha, who is giving evidence first WASN'T.

 

[DebinGA]

http://www.iol.co.za/capetimes/oscar-it-s-all-about-the-toilet-door-1.1476183#.Uz8Efye9KK0

Some information regarding this above Dots.

Is Reggie Perumal the DT equivalent of Dr. Saayman (pathology), Capt. Mangena (ballistics), or Batman? He sounded very pleased in that early article to be on Team Pistorius.

 

[steveml]

Nel put piles of evidence on the record, he did not talk about all of it. Once something is in evidence Nel can go to it whenever he chooses. The WhatsApp stuff has me the most interested, none of that has been talked about yet, and the deleted things were recovered; they did not finish the collection of data from OPs iPhone until March 5th, that was the same day the trial started.

Think of it like the photo of the jeans and now the photo of a man, those photos are in the State's photo book that they put in as evidence and yet they did not talk about them. That is because Nel intends to use them in his cross examination of OP.

Sorry to sink your boat Viper but that's the phone, iPad and WhatsApp evidence done and dusted.

All that paperwork and phone information was given to Roux during discovery, so he's aware of everything that's there, and he dealt with it at the time. There aren't going to be any last minute rabbits pulled out of hats. If there was something incriminating in there, Roux hasn't seen it during discovery so it would be inadmissible.

 

[Val1]

I have a feeling we are going to find out next week! I am not in the camp that believes OP will take the truth about what happened with him to his grave, or write a book after he, if he, gets out of prison. I do believe there is evidence on one of the electronic devices of what Reeva learned that "forced" OP to have to murder her.

We shall see.

I just hope it's on the data from the one that the defense team hid for almost two weeks and thought was safe enough to disclose at the bail hearing.