Trial Discussion Thread #17

[Insp.Dots]

Ah ok. I was chatting with Viper , who seems to have a different perspective, i.e.. Nel can bring up the jeans issue etc and anything else the PT have submitted into evidence

Well we will see next week. I hope that we do get the answers to the jeans etc. Roux managed to slip in the 'happy' video didn't he, so anything is possible. Watching case discussions the experts say there will be no big surprise s from Nel other than him trying to catch OP out lying. The State have to give their case and evidence to the defence so they have chance to explain.....the jeans for example are no surprise to the defence so If asked they will no doubt come up with an explanation.....whether it's a true one is up to the Judge to decide I guess.

FWIW I really feel for Masipa.....talk about pressure to do right.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Thanks Dots , I didn't know that, what happened with the hired Reggie then I wonder.

I have just read and posted that Jan Botha did attend the autopsy at the request of Reggie Perumal. If you would like a link I can find one.

 

[DebinGA]

I just hope it's on the data from the one that the defense team hid for almost two weeks and thought was safe enough to disclose at the bail hearing.

What device contained RS's msg to OP about the distressing "hurdle" he was dealing with hours before he killed her? And how could Nel not be able to ask OP about it?

 

[whiterum]

I have just read and posted that Jan Botha did attend the autopsy at the request of Reggie Perumal. If you would like a link I can find one.

Thanks IB !

 

[james83]

Seems like Perumal agreed with Saayman?

Barry Bateman ‏@barrybateman Mar 10
#OscarPistorius Saayman: private defence pathologist Reggie Perumal attended the autopsy - he was satisfied with the findings. BB

 

[fox1lady]

No matter how much I agree with that, if the defence show that OP was in fear of his life and unable to think in a rational way at that point he will get away on culpable homicide. That isn't just my view it is what other Lawyers are fearful of.

If he gets away with this it will send out a message to people that you can shoot who the heck you want, you just have to say that you thought they were going to harm you! "thought I was killing an intruder Milady... please let me go home" Crazy

 

[Really?]

Agreed. Also, I'm wondering if DT will suggest that OP's inability to clearly remember what happened that night, is because OP is suffering from PTS Disorder?

That is so " trending now ".......I do like MeLady a lot. I do hope I can be as graceful as she when I am her age.

 

[Viper]

With respect, You did seem to imply previously that OP's experts are just being bought off to say whatever. I think it will be interesting. One was formerly a Police expert of very high esteem. I don't think anyone working on this case would risk their reputation let alone there freedom just to play OP's fiddle. His money has paid for the best, but even they have to work within the law.
If OP is guilty I believe the Judge will see that and act accordingly no matter how much corruption in the Country.

BIB. I read about OPs ballistics "expert" and I shared information about his "expertise" that he testified to in one high profile SA murder trial. Here:

A teenager witnessed a nightclub owner yelling at a man and then pulling a semiautomatic pistol and shooting the man in the head, killing him. Direct eyewitness that did not know either man, so case closed right? Noooo my friends! OPs ballistics guy tells the court that the witness was mistaken in what s/he saw because the ejected bullet casing landed too far away from where the two men were standing for the shooter to have shot the victim and be that close to the victim, so a bullet fired by someone else's gun had to have killed the man and not the bullet that the defendant fired from his gun! The killer wasted his money though, like OP seems to be doing, and he was convicted of murder.

So why question my being skeptical of what his "expert opinion" of OPs case will be? Given that he has twisted his "expert opinion" in the past to support his employer's (the defendant's) needs for the trial, contradicting the testimony of a disinterested direct eyewitness at that!!!

 

[Insp.Dots]

bbm - Sorry but I have to take issue with this. Who was first on the scene? It certainly wasn't any law enforcement, it was the estate manager and his lawyer daughter, who then blocked the security guards from entering, then Dr. Stipp who they couldn't really refuse entry to since he was the first medical person on scene, OP's brother, sister, career spin doctor, lawyers, locksmith, ambulance personnel and possibly more, iirc.

Most of all of those were already there before any law enforcement arrived so yes, they all should have been questioned, searched, had fingerprints done etc before they were allowed to leave the scene, but for all intents and purposes, OP himself had made sure that the scene was so contaminated with his support team that whatever the police may have not done re pictures pales in comparison imo.

Anything and everything in that house could have been moved/altered(tampered with) by OP, family and friends before the first police walk-thru so it was all already suspect. Don't forget, even the defense legal team deliberately tried to hide evidence so I don't get why everything seems to be getting blamed on the prosecution side.

Yes, fair points. It was chaotic, but in fairness none of the family or estate staff would be considering it a crime scene. The police when they did arrive ALSO didn't treat it as a crime scene or secure it properly for a long time. We know this from the bail hearing. The police could and should have stopped family and whoever else moving freely around the moment they arrived. That is there job and the most important one. Hence Hilton getting a severe dressing down.
It is sad for Police that ARE meticulous and working very hard to keep law & order. Mangena for example, stood out to all of us as a man of integrity who did his job and gave his evidence in a clear and precise manner. EXACTLY as he should.

 

[Really?]

He flipped because he was annoyed with Reeva .. you can tell that just from what Reeva told us in her WhatsApp messages that he was becoming increasingly irritated by her .. a thorn in his side all the time.

:yourock:..............that is it.

Now I have to hear Morrissey sing "The Boy With A Thorn In His Side".

 

[Insp.Dots]

I have just read and posted that Jan Botha did attend the autopsy at the request of Reggie Perumal. If you would like a link I can find one.

Thanks, don't worry about it. I read that only Perumal attended. We will find out on Monday I'm sure

 

[soozieqtips]

Yes, fair points. It was chaotic, but in fairness none of the family or estate staff would be considering it a crime scene. The police when they did arrive ALSO didn't treat it as a crime scene or secure it properly for a long time. We know this from the bail hearing. The police could and should have stopped family and whoever else moving freely around the moment they arrived. That is there job and the most important one. Hence Hilton getting a severe dressing down.
It is sad for Police that ARE meticulous and working very hard to keep law & order. Mangena for example, stood out to all of us as a man of integrity who did his job and gave his evidence in a clear and precise manner. EXACTLY as he should.

BBM - Stander's daughter is a lawyer. In fairness, how could she not consider the place was a crime scene when a woman had just been shot dead in it? Of course she knew it was a crime scene.

 

[Really?]

No matter how much I agree with that, if the defence show that OP was in fear of his life and unable to think in a rational way at that point he will get away on culpable homicide. That isn't just my view it is what other Lawyers are fearful of.

Rest easy......this will all come together neatly for the PT.

Was he in fear for his life when he jumped out of his car with a gun....racing towards an unknown target?.......That could have (and should have) ended for him badly.:moo:

 

[Viper]

Sorry to sink your boat Viper but that's the phone, iPad and WhatsApp evidence done and dusted.

All that paperwork and phone information was given to Roux during discovery, so he's aware of everything that's there, and he dealt with it at the time. There aren't going to be any last minute rabbits pulled out of hats. If there was something incriminating in there, Roux hasn't seen it during discovery so it would be inadmissible.

BIB1 That is incorrect.

BIB2. All of the evidence that the State has they have supplied to the defense. Roux knows what the State has, but you do not. Roux dealt with only what the State presented during live testimony. Roux has not dealt with what the State will present during cross examination; those images, WhatsApp messages, and whatever else is ALREADY in the State's evidence that they have ALREADY put in to evidence, have not been shown to you yet.

BIB3. You don't seem to be following what many have explained for some time now. Please see my comment in BIB2

 

[steveml]

Seems like Perumal agreed with Saayman?

Barry Bateman ‏@barrybateman Mar 10
#OscarPistorius Saayman: private defence pathologist Reggie Perumal attended the autopsy - he was satisfied with the findings. BB

Barry was tweeting a reply that was given to reporters :

Q. Mr Perumal have you found anything?

A. Yes, I'm satisfied with the findings.

Nobody knows what his findings are yet, apart from the DT.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I thought this was interesting - well slightly. OP caught out having lunch with his legal team and laughing at times.

http://ewn.co.za/2014/04/02/Oscar-Pistorius-trial-Pathologist-to-take-stand-first

 

[Insp.Dots]

BIB. I read about OPs ballistics "expert" and I shared information about his "expertise" that he testified to in one high profile SA murder trial. Here:

A teenager witnessed a nightclub owner yelling at a man and then pulling a semiautomatic pistol and shooting the man in the head, killing him. Direct eyewitness that did not know either man, so case closed right? Noooo my friends! OPs ballistics guy tells the court that the witness was mistaken in what s/he saw because the ejected bullet casing landed too far away from where the two men were standing for the shooter to have shot the victim and be that close to the victim, so a bullet fired by someone else's gun had to have killed the man and not the bullet that the defendant fired from his gun! The killer wasted his money though, like OP seems to be doing, and he was convicted of murder.

So why question my being skeptical of what his "expert opinion" of OPs case will be? Given that he has twisted his "expert opinion" in the past to support his employer's (the defendant's) needs for the trial, contradicting the testimony of a disinterested direct eyewitness at that!!!

Fair enough, I hadn't seen that can you give me his name and where you got the link please so I can read up?

 

[Interested Bystander]

Expert: Screaming gives Pistorius 'major problem'

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/23/expert-screaming-gives-pistorius-major-problem/

 

[Interested Bystander]

Thanks, don't worry about it. I read that only Perumal attended. We will find out on Monday I'm sure

Yes, not long now. I suppose it is possible the press got it wrong, wouldn't be the first time but I find it a bit odd that a pathologist who 'was not at the autopsy' can give evidence on RS. Maybe he is only giving evidence about the food debacle or his opinion as to whether someone can scream after having been shot in the head.

 

[james83]

Barry was tweeting a reply that was given to reporters :

Q. Mr Perumal have you found anything?

A. Yes, I'm satisfied with the findings.

Nobody knows what his findings are yet, apart from the DT.

No i don't think that's true, Saayman carried out the autopsy and Perumal is satisfied with his it's finding's.