Trial Discussion Thread #20 - 14.04.08, Day 18

[Gryffindor]

je suis d'accord , not a verb like in English :seeya: ("I am of agreement" type thing)

Ah, merci, Waddles :-D Bien sûr!
Comme "es-tu d'accord?"

C'est vrai, mon ami x :seeya:

 

[soozieqtips]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. There's no way to know exactly what is going through his mind but to me the crying and wailing indicate genuine emotional pain. It's likely a combination of remorse, regret, fear, depression, and all the emotions that have been building for the last year.

To suggest that it is staged is ridiculous IMO. To question what he's really crying about is a more reasonable question - and none of us know the answer to that question.

IMO Oscar is still deeply depressed and emotionally unstable (seems obvious, right?). I do not think he is in very good control over his emotions, certainly not enough to plan to cry at certain points. I think he wishes to avoid thinking about it and dealing with it at all and it is all very overwhelming.

BBM - Murderers can and do stage emotions for the benefit of the court, mainly because they want to avoid jail time, just like OP. You'd think the last thing he'd be interested in (what with all the emotions that have been building for a year, as you suggest) would be finding a new girlfriend to replace the one he murdered just a year ago, and yet, hey presto, he has! I think to suggest it's not possible to plan certain behaviour for the court is ridiculous. OP doesn't want to go to prison. He's lived life doing pretty much anything he wants without ever being held responsible for some of his more questionable behaviour. On that basis, I think he'll do whatever it takes to make sure he's seen as inconsolable, distraught and remorseful. There are numerous occasions when murderers put on an act for the court. OP is no different than anyone else when you strip him of his celebrity status. Sure, I bet he wishes he could turn the clock back, but that doesn't mean his tears are tears of regret for Reeva. They're just as easily tears for himself and his potentially lost future. If he's going for the pity vote, it doesn't matter what any of us think. All that matters is what the judge believes.

 

[TorisMom003]

If the defense team, OP, anyone in his camp are reading the comments sections of the many articles about OP and this trial then surely they have seen WS come up. I myself have seen WS mentioned in at least one article while reading the comments section.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Maybe that's because he isn't a sociopath or maybe even a narcissist.

I believe he had a rash of anger which he couldn't control. Anger which had escalated during whatever argument they were having. Before he knew it, it was done. It had gone too far. It's still pre-meditated, IMO, b/c even though he was in a rash of anger, he still picked up the gun, walked to the door, and shot her.

I don't see him at all as a Jodi Arias type or a Scott Peterson type, etc.. Or Martin MacNeill, or countless others like that.

I do believe he is sorry for this whole situation. And if he could do it all over again, he would do things much differently and Reeva would still be alive.

The difference b/w him and the others like what you mentioned, is that the only thing those types regret is that they got caught. For example, they would still have liked for the other person to be dead, just maybe in some other way so that they wouldn't have gotten caught. YKWIM?

I believe Oscar does not want Reeva to be dead. He wishes he could hit a "rewind" button and have the whole thing never happen.

So that is the difference, IMO.

But that doesn't mean that Oscar's fist priority right now is not Oscar. In fact, that is what makes most sense to me. He is in a fight for his freedom.

When he steps into the courtroom every day, IMO, that is his focus and that is his goal. I don't think he has that much energy/concentration/focus right now to be so incredibly focused on both Reeva and himself.

Meaning - yes, I believe he has cried a lot about this in private. Wishing it had never happened. Wishing he had just make different choices that night.

But when he comes into the courtroom - his whole focus is on himself. And in the recent months leading up to court, he has probably been practicing his "lines," practicing his "story," etc..

I don't think it's genuine what he's showing in court. I think he has thought about a certain image he wants to portray to the judge. He wants to portray that he is weak, that he is scared, that he has become so emotionally-distraught by all of this that he cannot possibly think of anything else and cannot possibly formulate any story or lines or lies. That he is just barely stringing himself along.

That's why the crying, comiting, etc., suddenly comes on during certain CUE moments, like discussion of Reeva's dead body, discussion of first finding her after he killed her, etc..

JMO.

I also have no doubt he is sorry and if he could turn the clock back he would ,but I also think he is trying to give the judge the impression that he has suffered enough so as to be given no jail time what so ever . Cynical view point maybe but none the less MOO
I don't think you could possibly say he has suffered enough when he has moved on so quickly and has not been able to state for a fact that they were actually in love . They went on a few dates then Reeva went away ,he then went away to Cape Town and they then starting spending more time together mid January.
Reading the texts of fallouts with the time they spent together is telling .
A father shooting his daughter would quite clearly live with it for the rest of his life . OP would and has it would seem carried on as usual .

 

[steveml]

Ah, merci, Waddles :-D Bien sûr!
Comme "es-tu d'accord?"

C'est vrai, mon ami x :seeya:

Je m'appelle Ste.


Will I get by on that? :dunno:

 

[aa9511]

It does not seem at all odd to me that the point he really breaks down is when he is describing finding Reeva on the floor, having just been shot and killed by his own hand.

Wouldn't the whole thing have been terrifying? From after getting the fans, thinkinng there was an intruder, the FEAR, the EXTREME FEAR he was under, the terror, all of his nightmares seemingly coming true, etc.?

He knows now that they was no burglar. But at the time, he thought there was a burglar. The feelings would still be there. The feelings he felt at the time he thought there was a burglar.

IDK but if it was me I would start bawling at the time starting to talk about thinking I heard sometihng, thinking there was a burlgar.

No he seems to be okay, then BAM Ka-zaam, SOBBING soon as he gets to the point of opening the door and seeing Reeva.

Problem is, at the time, he would have had real feelings of utmost terror and fear and all the feelings associated with thinking it was a burglar - those feelings would have started before he actually opened the door and saw Reeva's body.

Oscar on that night supposedly thought there was a burglar.

Nah, I'm pretty sure he doesn't start his emotional basket-case-distraught-sobbing there b/c he has set his "CUE" to be crying when he gets to the part where Reeva is found.

He forgets that actually he was supposed to feal great fear/emotions before actually opening the door.

Because he never felt those emotions. Because he never thought there was a burglar. Because this is all a story, and he knew it was Reeva the whole time.

I don't know, pretty clear to me.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

If the defense team, OP, anyone in his camp are reading the comments sections of the many articles about OP and this trial then surely they have seen WS come up. I myself have seen WS mentioned in at least one article while reading the comments section.

Wow the thought of helping the defence is almost enough to put me off posting here

 

[patCee]

(to..AlexUK..)I think it will be earlier, he's got the traumatic after shooting to do tomorrow, in detail.

 

[soozieqtips]

One thing that stood out from today's testimony was that Reeva was fully awake when OP was bringing in the fans, and they were actually speaking to each other.

BBM - Yes, and she was also fully awake when OP went to sleep. Funny that, because in his affidavit he said they both went to sleep at 10pm - but now, Reeva didn't go to sleep. Oh, and before Reeva didn't go to sleep, OP asked her to close up the room etc before she did fall asleep. But when he woke up and she was still awake, he still went to bring everything in, even though Reeva wasn't asleep and was going to do all that before she went to sleep.

 

[Viper]

<modsnip>

BIB Really? Well for the sake of the conversation a hypothetical: How about from the man that ran a red light and crushed your husband's or wife's spine, leaving him/her unable to work and support your the family (medical bills, home, food, family)? Would you sleep in the street and eat bread for the rest of your life before taking his money?

A monetary settlement of a civil case by OP would represent him finally taking responsibility for his actions for the very first time in his life. I would think it would be almost refreshing to him to experience that!

But lets face it, if the two parties don't reach an Agreement soon OP will avoid that responsibility as well, because he is soon to be pennyless and in prison. That's all.

 

[minor4th]

Wouldn't the whole thing have been terrifying? From after getting the fans, thinkinng there was an intruder, the FEAR, the EXTREME FEAR he was under, the terror, all of his nightmares seemingly coming true, etc.?

He knows now that they was no burglar. But at the time, he thought there was a burglar. The feelings would still be there. The feelings he felt at the time he thought there was a burglar.

IDK but if it was me I would start bawling at the time starting to talk about thinking I heard sometihng, thinking there was a burlgar.

No he seems to be okay, then BAM Ka-zaam, SOBBING soon as he gets to the point of opening the door and seeing Reeva.

Problem is, at the time, he would have had real feelings of utmost terror and fear and all the feelings associated with thinking it was a burglar - those feelings would have started before he actually opened the door and saw Reeva's body.

Oscar on that night supposedly thought there was a burglar.

Nah, I'm pretty sure he doesn't start his emotional basket-case-distraught-sobbing there b/c he has set his "CUE" to be crying when he gets to the part where Reeva is found.

He forgets that actually he was supposed to feal great fear/emotions before actually opening the door.

Because he never felt those emotions. Because he never thought there was a burglar. Because this is all a story, and he knew it was Reeva the whole time.

I don't know, pretty clear to me.

I don't think he seemed to be ok for most of this testimony. I think he was crying and sniffling throughout. He started sobbing at the rather climactic event of finding he had killed his girlfriend.

Again, that does not seem unusual to me at all. That is when I would expect the emotions to burst forth.

 

[Carol70]

The case I quoted has similarities to OP but they are in reality very different. Mdunge shot only once as the door was actually opening, there was no noise, screams or anything else that could have alerted him to the fact that it was his wife in the bathroom, he immediately rushed her to hospital. Her family supported his release as presumably they agreed that it was a terrible accident and that they didnt believe he intended to kill his wife, who was also pregnant with his baby. The scenario is very different to OPs.

Mdunges wife's family had a long relation ship with him, the Steenkamps never met OP.

For sure, I understand that but I don't believe the Steenkamps have anywhere stated, in all the interviews they have given, that they believe OP intentionally killed Reeva although I could be wrong, but as far as I know, they have been pretty cautious to speculate what they believe really happened that night to the general public.

 

[aa9511]

I also have no doubt he is sorry and if he could turn the clock back he would ,but I also think he is trying to give the judge the impression that he has suffered enough so as to be given no jail time what so ever . Cynical view point maybe but none the less MOO
I don't think you could possibly say he has suffered enough when he has moved on so quickly and has not been able to state for a fact that they were actually in love . They went on a few dates then Reeva went away ,he then went away to Cape Town and they then starting spending more time together mid January.
Reading the texts of fallouts with the time they spent together is telling .
A father shooting his daughter would quite clearly live with it for the rest of his life . OP would and has it would seem carried on as usual .

Good points.

 

[TorisMom003]

I don't think he seemed to be ok for most of this testimony. I think he was crying and sniffling throughout. He started sobbing at the rather climactic event of finding he had killed his girlfriend.

Again, that does not seem unusual to me at all. That is when I would expect the emotions to burst forth.

And if we had been allowed to see his face during his testimony we would know for sure. However the defense didn't want that to happen. I wonder why they decided to go with OP not being shown while giving his testimony? After all, we were allowed to see him cry, cover his head, plug his ears, write notes to his lawyers, read a book, etc while the State witnesses were up.

MOO

 

[Viper]

It does not seem at all odd to me that the point he really breaks down is when he is describing finding Reeva on the floor, having just been shot and killed by his own hand.

BIB You know what I found odd? The sound of his donkey-ish whatever that thing was that he was doing today that made the Judge jump up and leave the courtroom. At the bail hearing it was real crying, short outbursts of crying, which he managed to keep in check. In the past few weeks it was heaving and vomiting and on at least one occasion he was uncontrollable, or so it seemed. But now he has created, produced a whole new sound. F.A.K.E. :smile:

 

[04009margaret]

Huh? I did not see this at all. I didn't hear his sisters audibly having an emotional outburst either.

It's there, she has a loud audible gasp then cries, the judge glares at her

 

[TorisMom003]

For sure, I understand that but I don't believe the Steenkamps have anywhere stated, in all the interviews they have given, that they believe OP intentionally killed Reeva although I could be wrong, but as far as I know, they have been pretty cautious to speculate what they believe really happened that night to the general public.

Perhaps they were waiting to finally hear OP's version, the complete and final one, of what happened that night before they decided if he killed Reeva intentionally or not.

Now after hearing him lie and minimalize Reeva's thoughts, feelings and concerns on the stand they may be realizing that what they had feared from the beginning was true.

MOO

 

[minor4th]

andrew hardingVerified account

&#8207;@BBCAndrewH

We can, and will, all disagree on the source/nature of #OscarPistorius grief. But i don't believe anyone in court today saw it as an "act."

 

[Gbtaketwo]

BIB You know what I found odd? The sound of his donkey-ish whatever that thing was that he was doing today that made the Judge jump up and leave the courtroom. At the bail hearing it was real crying, short outbursts of crying, which he managed to keep in check. In the past few weeks it was heaving and vomiting and on at least one occasion he was uncontrollable, or so it seemed. But now he has created, produced a whole new sound. F.A.K.E. :smile:

I think that is the point when I saw the judge sigh . We think she is maybe indulging the defence too much but she may in fact be just making sure she doesn't give him grounds for appeal but is actually seriously not impressed by his over the top behaviour .

 

[Trotterly]

More convinced than ever about his premeditated killing now.

In his testimony today OP says that after firing the shots he had to back up to the bedroom and feel around for Reeva in the dark before making his way back to the bathroom. This would be the first time he could have turned on the bathroom light. But that would be far too late as both Stipps saw the light a MAXIMUM of just a few seconds after the shots. And if you believe Mrs Stipp almost immediately after the shots.

The light being on too soon destroys his "fear" story and the whole lie collapses.