Trial Discussion Thread #20 - 14.04.08, Day 18

[Gryffindor]

Actually 3! The doctor and his wife heard 2 distinct voices over lapping- a woman screaming and a low pitched male yelling.
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Nel is prooving that OP heard RS screaming, when he shows that the 1st shot hit her hip - she would have screamed, then he changed the position of the gun when he heard her fall and shoots #2-4 hitting her in the shoulder/chest and head.

Many people don't scream when hit.

Shot 1 hip
Shot 2 missed and ricocheted (across back)
Shot 3 elbow/arm or head
Shot 4 elbow/arm or head

Webbing of 2nd and 3rd fingers on left hand wounded , likely prior to head shot.

(As testified by Cpt. Mangena)

Reeva sustained no shot to the shoulder or chest.

 

[Insp.Dots]

Only 1.

Estelle Van der Merwe.

Awoke an hour before shooting to hear people talking in loud voices as if arguing.

Unable to say which direction or which house this was coming from.

The rest did not hear an altercation, they heard screaming/shouting/calls for help, but none of them claimed to hear any argument or fight.

I'm waiting for the witnesses to say there was an argument going on in another house, perhaps that's why Nel didn't call the nearest neighbours?

 

[soozieqtips]

Not everything in the press is true!

So he hasn't been seen joking with his lawyers over lunch, he hasn't been on holidays and he doesn't have a new girlfriend?

 

[Magdalyn]

I realise it sounds odd and it's unfamiliar to me too but then every couple is different, a close friend of mine in her mid-30s has been with someone for just 4 months and is already 3 months pregnant and they have never spent a single night away from each other since the day they met and their evenings are very much routine, cooking eating going on computer. They're not even physical together that often, and it's all normal to them. Every couple is different.

Every couple is different, you're right.

But in your example, the woman has been pregnant for 75% of their relationship. It might have more to do with the facts of her pregnancy. Many women feel like dog poo warmed over in the first trimester, body parts are tender, breakfast lunch and dinner might come up. And some men are uber put off by doing the deed while there's a wee one on the inside. Seriously. I knew a couple like this. :scared:

But for most new relationships, the first 3-6 months are called the honeymoon phase for a reason. Yes, because you're newly in love and tend to be blind to each other's flaws during this period, but it's also when most couples are having the most frequent, um, sexual congress of their entire relationship :blushing: Moo. :twocents:

 

[K.T]

He did seem to flounder when trying to describe his V-Day gift to Reeva, as if he wasn't confident in what he was saying.

If he'd got her a charm bracelet, it could have still been at the jeweler's to have the charms put on.

I find the way Pistorius talks about Steenkamp as quite clipped and detached, compared to when he was talking about anything else: “I obviously care for her.” “I was not kind to her.” “She was short with me.” I think in this argument he left out quite a bit on what happened in the car with his jealousy: “We were going to spend the evening together but I dropped her off.” I think I may have heard a few past tenses.

He was listing quite a few of her few negative points, how she was emotional, over-reacting, implied she was not dealing as well with the pressures of the relationship compared to him. When he talked about his plans for Valentine’s and buying a gift later (which we are all still unsure what he meant and I think he is too) he stumbled aroud, was unclear and had variance in speech timing. I noticed lack of clarity at other times when he seemed to be dissembling: about the alarms, how he walked through the passage after the bathroom/window opened etc.

But I was trying to do other things so was dropping in and out of the trial, so I couldn’t listen to all of his testimony, darn it life.

 

[Gryffindor]

Do you seriously think OP is going to admit he heard screaming? Not in a million years. He CAN'T admit to hearing it because his goose would be well and truly cooked. The one thing you can absolutely guarantee is that he will never admit he heard Reeva screaming. How could he?? He'd be looking at definite :jail:

Thanks. So what do you reckon caused him to intentionally shoot her? What upset him enough to actually kill her? Going by evidence so far.

 

[Forensics]

Does it mean that if she was not breathing that she was in fact dead? Or can one be not breathing but still with a heart beat?

It is quite possible for a person to be still alive but not breathing...it is called 'respiratory arrest' and one would need to immediately commence CPR to keep the person alive. It is also quite possible that the person's heart has stopped as well, in which case it is called cardiac arrest.

 

[jay-jay]

Asking somebody to close some doors? Get real.

I'd better not ask my partner if she'll put the alarm on then tonight

I've changed that post now because I realised soon afterwards that I had misread it, and I had replied to it as though it was something that had actually happened (and if it had have happened, then yes, it would be classic DV stuff .. i.e. "if only you hadn't put the peas on the wrong part of the plate, I wouldn't have had to hit you" <<-- that is actually how DV works, I'm afraid to say, hard as it might be for some to believe).

 

[lisasalinger]

The way OP was sobbing sounded like genuine grief to me. In my own life, when I've experienced the loss of a loved one, my voice sounded very similar and deeper than it typically sounds when I've cried at other times that didn't involve such a life-altering loss. The only times in my life when I've cried like that have been after my father passed away, after my mother passed away, and after a close friend's death.

I recognized the pain in OP's voice when he broke down. It's a pain that comes from one's core.

I think he regrets his actions.

I don't need to think of OP as an unfeeling monster in order to also believe that he deserves to be punished for killing Reeva.

I don't feel sorry for him, even though I believe his pain is genuine.

OP is 100% responsible for shooting Reeva. OP is 100% responsible for the sorrow he has caused Reeva's parents. Despite his own suffering, Reeva deserves justice.

This is beautiful, Sorrell. I totally agree with you.

It's not very often that killers are straight up unfeeling monsters. I know that sounds really weird but all of us regulars on this forum should understand what I mean. It happens somewhat frequently that people act out and kill, often for very ridiculous and petty reasons... They are not psychopaths or have mental illnesses, they just kill for all sorts of stupid reasons.

And very rarely are you ever going to find emails or texts that directly imply they are going to do it.

 

[K.T]

Firstly, I apologise for turning up late to the party and probably trying to start a conversation which everyone else has already had, but i was at work from just after 7am to 6.30pm and am just too weary to read through the thread.

In a brief respite at work I was reading some of the transcript and saw something which really made me :maddening:

In his first affidavit OP made no mention whatsoever of speaking to Reeva after they both retired to bed until he shouted "get out of my house" at the 'intruders' and "Call the police" to Reeva.

In the second statement at the beginning of the trial he suddenly claimed that he had just spoken to Reeva before he fetched the fans in and then made no mention of speaking again until the shouting as above.

All of a sudden in his testimony today he apparently whispered "Reeva call the police " when he came in with the fans and heard the noise.

As soon as I read that, I thought "i bet his defence team read the web to see what holes people are picking in his account and then try to amend his testimony to fix them"

Why didn't he mention this whisper before? Because it never happened in my view. Just another lie and obfuscation to try and cover his back.

I had already wondered whether the sleuths on here and elsewhere on the web might be helping his defence team by pointing out where his account is weak and therefore where they need to invent stuff to plug the gaps. I now think this may well be the case.

Just my own opinion.

Agreed on all you points. I spent a lot of (boring) time analyzing those two statements and there are so many differences, even though I had to go out during half his testimony:

-He now says the fans, are on, yet at least one was unplugged, and to my knowledge the police did not talk about the fans running when they documented the crime scene.
- What he is doing with the blinds
- Steenkamp&#8217;s movements and the time they went to bed.
- Steenkamp died in his arms downstairs in the affidavit, yet now she&#8217;s not breathing in the toilet.
- Everything he said to Steenkamp: now he says he whispers to her and shouts at her &#8220;many times.&#8221;
- Screaming details
- the toilet door slamming

 

[Viper]

Many people don't scream when hit.

Shot 1 hip
Shot 2 missed and ricocheted (across back)
Shot 3 elbow/arm or head
Shot 4 elbow/arm or head

Webbing of 2nd and 3rd fingers on left hand wounded , likely prior to head shot.

(As testified by Cpt. Mangena)

Reeva sustained no shot to the shoulder or chest.

Kind of you to offer a clarification for the FM. It seems a simple mistake between identifying the shoulder and the upper right arm.

BTW The DT expert, the Professor, described the injury to Reeva's upper right arm as an amputation; there was very little tissue left to keep the arm to connected to her body.

 

[Suthrnqt]

Pardon my phrasing, but, it is time for OP to strap his legs on, stand up, and face this like a man!

:twocents:

 

[soozieqtips]

Thanks. So what do you reckon caused him to intentionally shoot her? What upset him enough to actually kill her? Going by evidence so far.

What's the point in going over the evidence when not all of us agree on what the evidence is. Let's just say that men kill their partners in a rage all the time. It's nothing new. Just because the suspect is a celebrity sportsman doesn't mean he's immune to the same feelings of rage, jealousy, insecurity and foul temper that other mere mortals are.

 

[steveml]

Actually 3! The doctor and his wife heard 2 distinct voices over lapping- a woman screaming and a low pitched male yelling.
=====

Please read the details before replying

The suggestion was altercation and then gunshots. There was 1 witness.

i.e. rowing/arguing and then gunshots - 1 witness

The Stipps heard gunshots and then screaming. (they did not hear any voices first).

 

[Insp.Dots]

The evidence is just not there to prove what he is saying is true, either.

The same could be said for some posters here who really want the story to be true; they want him to be innocent of knowingly killing her; they don't want this to be a domestic violence case. The evidence is just not there. Apparently.

Um.....just like to point out that the defence have only just started......to state that some just want him innocent and some want him guilty is a little premature....some just want to hear ALL the evidence before condemning a man.

Is this going to end with 'some' saying the judge was corrupt or wasn't fair?

I hope not for Reeva's sake! :banghead:

 

[jay-jay]

What if Reeva started the "argument" that 1 witness said were male and female voices?

.. and what if she did? I'm not with you ..

 

[Bazinga]

What if Reeva started the "argument" that 1 witness said were male and female voices?

She probably did start the argument but Oscar ended it.

 

[BabaJ]

Clearly.

His 'breakdowns' have been timed to perfection.
This is why I cannot believe so many people are falling for it.
His whole defence depends on showing regret and remorse at what was a mistaken identity / self-defence killing. For him to stand any chance of a reduced sentence the requirement from him for the DT is for him to be over whelmed with grief and to stick to the story.

However, he is in real danger of pushing the grief too far as the judge should/will not accept it and he is already changing/adding to the story in ways that will surely trip him up if he ever gets to x-exam.

I am worried that you are right. It is hard to believe that he is sooooo overcome with sorry and grief for Reeva more than one year afterwards. With no disrespect, they had known each other for several months with large intervals in between. You cannot compare his loss to the loss of a child or a long-term partner or parent. He seems to be way overboard. It should be Reeva's parents wailing and breaking down but they are going through this with dignity. IMO

 

[Suthrnqt]

She probably did start the argument but Oscar ended it.

Just noticed your screen name...love it. And your post was indeed a Bazinga!

 

[BabaJ]

It is quite possible for a person to be still alive but not breathing...it is called 'respiratory arrest' and one would need to immediately commence CPR to keep the person alive. It is also quite possible that the person's heart has stopped as well, in which case it is called cardiac arrest.

Would not be a natural reaction (especially for an athlete) to administer CPR right away instead of sitting beside her?