Trial Discussion Thread #20 - 14.04.08, Day 18

[BlueShoe]

How convenient that Oscar couldn't hear a thing as his ears were ringing only during the shooting. Afterwards he could hear just fine that Reeva was not answering him. If the gunshots deafened him, would he regain his hearing just a few seconds later?

 

[Feynman]

1 witness alleged arguing.

Although arguing and shots aren't conclusive proof / evidencefor premeditated murder . . .

And van der Merwe couldn't hear any words. Still, I think her story needs to be addressed by the DT - to say the least. Roux already failed with one test of this witness when he had people mimic loud arguing at OP's house. Merwe passed with flying colors.

 

[Feynman]

======
Okay, so I just listened to the ending of this tape where OP breaks down crying... he does NOT cry like a girl....

But he did not just discover he shot his girlfriend to death today.

 

[katydid23]

Would not be a natural reaction (especially for an athlete) to administer CPR right away instead of sitting beside her?

When my son was little, he was rough housing with friends, and broke his arm, and it was a very painful break. ALL I COULD THINK ABOUT , was how to best get him medical care. I was trying to decide between driving to hospital or waiting for an ambulance, and that was my entire focus, medical care. I was on the phone within seconds, and barking orders at others immediately. We opted for ambulance but we were outside at the curb, with ice and pressure applied, ready to go.

So it really bothers me that there is so much confusion about the ambulance. If he was in fact going to take her himself, why did he wave off security and say he was 'fine?' There seemed to be so much lag time between his shots, and the arrival of any medical help. That really niggles at me.

 

[steveml]

I'm not even going to guess OP's relationship with Reeva from a psychological point of view, because having not ever spoken with or seen Reeva and OP it would be a guess.
That's a leap too far for me in such a serious trial.

With regard to physical harm, I've yet to see or hear any evidence of domestic violence whatsoever. No witnesses have testified to anything of this nature and no marks have been found on Reeva's body to suggest this. This we know as fact, it is not guesswork.

It can be agreed we've heard allegations of firing out of a sunroof and a restaurant, and possession of illegal bullets, but none of these suggest anything other than improper conduct.

 

[BabaJ]

When my son was little, he was rough housing with friends, and broke his arm, and it was a very painful break. ALL I COULD THINK ABOUT , was how to best get him medical care. I was trying to decide between driving to hospital or waiting for an ambulance, and that was my entire focus, medical care. I was on the phone within seconds, and barking orders at others immediately. We opted for ambulance but we were outside at the curb, with ice and pressure applied, ready to go.

So it really bothers me that there is so much confusion about the ambulance. If he was in fact going to take her himself, why did he wave off security and say he was 'fine?' There seemed to be so much lag time between his shots, and the arrival of any medical help. That really niggles at me.

That was quite understandable reaction with your son. What my point was that OP is a professional athlete. Most of the athletes I know are VERY familiar with first aid so he would be expected to call the emergency help line/ambulance/netcare or similar and administer first aid, sometimes they even instruct people based on their description of the injury what to do until they arrive. However, I do not live in SA, where the situation can be different.

 

[IfIMay]

I'm not even going to guess OP's relationship with Reeva from a psychological point of view, because having not ever spoken with or seen Reeva and OP it would be a guess.
That's a leap too far for me in such a serious trial.

With regard to physical harm, I've yet to see or hear any evidence of domestic violence whatsoever. No witnesses have testified to anything of this nature and no marks have been found on Reeva's body to suggest this. This we know as fact, it is not guesswork.

It can be agreed we've heard allegations of firing out of a sunroof and a restaurant, and possession of illegal bullets, but none of these suggest anything other than improper conduct.

abuse isn't just physical, although your "evidence" is just that nothing happened as to appear on her dead body.
I think emotional abuse.. deriding, devaluing is much more harmful. But we do have 3 gunshot wounds to the perp's girlfriend. Sounds pretty domestic and violent to me. "allegations"? really? ok. I'm guessing only an admission of those things from glorious pistorious himself makes it evidence. ::sigh::

 

[steveml]

And van der Merwe couldn't hear any words. Still, I think her story needs to be addressed by the DT - to say the least. Roux already failed with one test of this witness when he had people mimic loud arguing at OP's house. Merwe passed with flying colors.

Here's the details regarding the Roux/Merwe sound test discussion :-

Roux tells van der Merwe why she heard noises in February this year. 'We did tests of a man and woman screaming as loud as they can in the bedroom to determine how far sound would travel at 2 to 3 in the morning. What's interesting is that you could not hear the screaming.'

Van der Merwe: 'I had no idea where the voice was coming from... I was scared to walk around the other side of the building.'

 

[kittychi]

Listening to his testimony - it did answer quite a few questions that we've been asking and wondering about.

Having heard him describe the events, it now seems to me that he panicked out of fear and that's what prompted the firing of the shots. Before his testimony, I thought more along the lines that in his mind there was definitely an intruder in the toilet who was coming out to shoot him - but by his account there was more uncertainty and certainly more panic than a deliberate aim and shoot at the toilet to stop the intruder.

That's only if he wasn't lying. IMO he was lying.

 

[steveml]

abuse isn't just physical, although your "evidence" is just that nothing happened as to appear on her dead body.
I think emotional abuse.. deriding, devaluing is much more harmful. But we do have 3 gunshot wounds to the perp's girlfriend. Sounds pretty domestic and violent to me. "allegations"? really? ok. I'm guessing only an admission of those things from glorious pistorious himself makes it evidence. ::sigh::

If physical evidence isn't there it isn't.

End of.

 

[soozieqtips]

abuse isn't just physical, although your "evidence" is just that nothing happened as to appear on her dead body.
I think emotional abuse.. deriding, devaluing is much more harmful. But we do have 3 gunshot wounds to the perp's girlfriend. Sounds pretty domestic and violent to me. "allegations"? really? ok. I'm guessing only an admission of those things from glorious pistorious himself makes it evidence. ::sigh::

Sam Taylor must have perjured herself then when she said OP fired a gun through the sun roof. Darren too. As for getting an admission of anything from OP, never gonna happen. He's in the permanent residence of denial. I know some here are very scathing of Sam Taylor, claiming she's bitter and scorned etc, but I don't really believe she'd perjure herself for a murderer. That's another leap into Fictionville for me.

 

[Gryffindor]

Steve, who do you think the defense will call as likely witnesses?

Thank you x

 

[nastasya]

It would be nice if the Judge could step in and put a halt to all this? In the same way a Ref steps in to stop a boxing match.

I see no way that Nel can disprove OP's version (beyond reasonable doubt) All the evidence to date and more to come will be irrelevant.

Nobody has to disprove the killer's version. <modsnip>

Never in the history of criminal law was the prosecution required to disprove a killer's version.

The killer admitted shooting and killing the victim. The killer must prove that his actions were not criminal.

 

[IfIMay]

If physical evidence isn't there it isn't.

End of.

doesn't mean it didn't happen. truly a sad end for Reeva.

 

[IfIMay]

Sam Taylor must have perjured herself then when she said OP fired a gun through the sun roof. Darren too. As for getting an admission of anything from OP, never gonna happen. He's in the permanent residence of denial. I know some here are very scathing of Sam Taylor, claiming she's bitter and scorned etc, but I don't really believe she'd perjure herself for a murderer. That's another leap into Fictionville for me.

It truly is amazing to witness this case and the suspension of disbelief going on. I believe he was angry and shot her in a rage and lack of control that has been well documented in his life. Did he plan it? no. Did he mean it when he fired the gun!? yes. Does he regret it now? yes. and for both his and Reeva's sakes. Is he innocent? Nope. He is mostly afraid for himself now and for the first time will have to face his consequences by himself.

 

[steveml]

Steve, who do you think the defense will call as likely witnesses?

Thank you x

I think it's mainly going to be similar expert witnesses to counter the PT's claims.

There could well be closer neighbours, as it just seems so unusual for a PT to have selected witnesses from so far away. Something doesn't sit right with me on that.

There can't be any character witnesses, so friends etc won't be required.

It's really hard to guess, because some evidence they won't be disputing - the ballistics have probably got the shot angle correct as both parties agree that OP was on stumps. The distance from the door will probably be claimed as the back wall, so they may want an expert to stress this possibility.

I'll have a good think, as I suspect OP's gonna be there for quite a while yet.

:smile:

 

[Val1]

I hope and pray your are right... its just seems like he is polishing up the "likeable" features of himself... storing away his shine box each morning after a night of no sleep. I hope you are right... just fear... imagine... ugh... okay, not going to go there...

I bet we have two more days of Roux playing badminton with OP. Then day III we see Nell... what do you think (all)? Maybe one more day before Nell?

Yes, we finish up the day in question, but then Roux has 365 more days to push through... and he is going to create an environment that would indicate OP is serious about innocence...

I wish they would just advance the pace here already, let's go, toss him in the freaken pit already and flick the switch...

You'll be able to get some sleep then, Oscar, [modsnip]

bbm Nooooo, it's my bd tomorrow and I was really hoping Nell would at least get to start his cross.

 

[steveml]

doesn't mean it didn't happen. truly a sad end for Reeva.

I agree with the Reeva sentiments entirely.

 

[kittychi]

Nel still has to cross examine. Though he hasn't presented hard evidence thus far for premeditated. Not at all.

And the screaming I mentioned a few pages back. If 500 witnesses testified to female screams, it's irrelevant, as Oscar DIDN'T hear anything, thus didn't know it was Reeva behind door. He's the one who has to hear screaming.

How does anyone PROVE Oscar DID hear her screaming? Now that's tricky . . .

He SAYS he didn't hear screaming.

I guess I need to shoot black talon bullets out of a powerful gun to really know the sound, but it is VERY difficult for me to believe that he did NOT hear blood curdling and terrified screaming.

:hearno:
.

 

[Duchy]

Does he sound like a man or a woman?

:lookingitup:

Man