Trial Discussion Thread #21 - 14.04.09, Day 19

[minor4th]

"With the benefit of hindsight I believe that Reeva went to the toilet when I went out on the balcony to bring the fan in."

Oh and BTW:

"During the early morning hours of 14 February 2013, I woke up, went onto the balcony to bring the fan in".
"I rushed back into the bedroom and opened the sliding door exiting onto the balcony and screamed for help."

Yeah, so these little changes do give me pause. It makes me wonder if his first account was true and if he tailored his story as time went on and he was more aware of the evidence.

 

[soozieqtips]

The brought in the fans bit was a red herring from the beginning imo. No proof except OP's that he touched the fans that night, is there?

He needs a reason to be out of the room so that he doesn't see or hear Reeva leave the bed and tiptoe silently across the floor to the bathroom. The fans are as good a reason as any to be out of the room, but he could have also said he was hot and went to get some air on the balcony. No proof at all that the fannytale is true.

 

[Viper]

The difference is when a witness is giving a police statement they are supposed to be telling everything they saw and heard. OP's bail affidavit was not a police statement or an account of every detail - it was bare bones with enough information to give his basic account.

So when a state's witness says she heard only a woman screaming in a police statement and that she heard 2 or 3 bangs -- it's more suspicious when she comes to trial and says she actually heard a woman's blood curdling screams, intermingled with a man's mocking yells, and that she is now certain she heard 4 bangs and she is even certain of the rhythm.

Do you not see the difference?

BIB No.

And In fact it is so much worse than what you are laying out. OP lied to the Magistrate at his bail hearing about facts to get released on bail.

 

[wb180]

He needs a reason to be out of the room so that he doesn't see or hear Reeva leave the bed and tiptoe silently across the floor to the bathroom. The fans are as good a reason as any to be out of the room, but he could have also said he was hot and went to get some air on the balcony. No proof at all that the fannytale is true.

That's the problem with little white lies. They work in isolation but then they don't work when you put them all together

Hopefully the truth will come out!

 

[04009margaret]

I have not finished listening, so I may agree with you before this is over

I know your fine with Nel testing OP on the affidavit, the problem was that instead of answering the questions, OP rambled on about anything but the question lol This made Nel have to follow up on what OP was putting before the court. Anyway, that's how I saw today's events.

 

[minor4th]

BIB No.

And In fact it is so much worse than what you are laying out. OP lied to the Magistrate at his bail hearing about facts to get released on bail.

Because his bail affidavit said he went onto the balcony?

I don't think so. And if you don't see the difference between a witness giving a full accounting in a police statement and a bail affidavit that lays out a minimum - I can't explain it any better than I have.9

 

[minor4th]

I know your fine with Nel testing OP on the affidavit, the problem was that instead of answering the questions, OP rambled on about anything but the question lol This made Nel have to follow up on what OP was putting before the court. Anyway, that's how I saw today's events.

I do see some of that going on, but more than that I see Nel asking confusing questions that really can't be answered with a simple yes or no without explanation.

 

[04009margaret]

Yet, according to State's witnesses - there were black bags covering her body. I remember it distinctly because I had an extremely visceral reaction to her being treated like rubbish.

I believe it was to protect themselves from getting blood on them. In my first aide course we were taught if we didn't have PPE available to use a plastic shopping bag instead.

 

[aa9511]

R asks about bat.

O: I can barely stand on my stumps. let alone wield a bat. I was on my stumps.

Yesss, Oscar, we knowwww. :facepalm: That's why you discarded the bat and went with the gun instead. Much easier to handle a gun rather than a bat on your stumps. :facepalm: Perhaps you can blame your stumps for killing Reeva, then.

 

[aa9511]

R asking about calls and dufdufduf sounds. At 3.17, what were they?

O: The sounds would have been the cricket bat hitting the door...Dr Stipp said he'd seen a man walking in the btrm.-

R: We'll get to that.

Oh Oscar can't wait to get to excuse for man walking across the window.....

 

[04009margaret]

Yeah, so these little changes do give me pause. It makes me wonder if his first account was true and if he tailored his story as time went on and he was more aware of the evidence.

He did

 

[Viper]

I don't think so - I think he does acknowledge that his plea statement relies on legal conclusions and information he knows from experts etc.

He maintains that the facts haven't changed - that his bail affidavit is true and it was written before he knew what any witnesses said or would say and without even knowing the state's theory of the case.

BIB1+2 Are you watching todays testimony? I only ask because OP admitted that much of his testimony was/is reconstruction, including using hundreds of witness statements and photos and other evidence. He repudiates much of his bail affidavit and blames his lawyers for misunderstanding what he told them. OP is a liar, by your definition and by mine. :smile:

 

[crasshopper]

Let me add that as Oscar is now a PROVEN liar, having signed and NOT corrected an affidavit he knew to be false, we must throw out the rest of his testimony per the Stipp detractors.

 

[jay-jay]

OP took the "locked bedroom door" thing out of the fairy tail. The bedroom doors had been broken through THAT NIGHT while he ran upstairs to get Reeva's purse; OP says he had to break them open because they got stuck from absorbing humidity. :floorlaugh: So his plea explanation does not include the "felt trapped, locked in my room" stuff.

BIB .. I'm pretty sure that door bashing bit came just after when he went downstairs to open the front door (ready for when he brought Reeva down .. which I think is a bit nuts anyway, if you wan't to do something that quickly .. he should've just brought Reeva straight down, placed her on the floor, opened the door, and then out into the car) .. it was when he went back upstairs to get her that he bashed the door in (when has he ever had to do that before, just because of humidity and expansion, and can't get his bedroom door to open? :facepalm .. but anyway, agree with the rest of your post, the point still stands.

 

[aa9511]

R: Dr S refers to 3.12 approx

O: I've marked out how far I walked on my stumps...as far as I remember, it was about five mins before I hit the door with the bat that I fired my weapon.

R: So consistent with the time of 3.12..

But of course! How long did it take to make Oscar's whole story "consistent" btw?

 

[Interested Bystander]

I heard a discussion this afternoon where some attorneys were giving their opinion on today's proceedings and one said jokingly that Nel would even prosecute his grandmother. However, they did all seem to think he was not doing anything unusual/unfair for a prosecution attorney. The only guy who thought he was a bit harsh was a psychologist but he would, wouldn't he and I would expect him to. He had no real interest in the case, only whether OP was being too pressurised.

 

[minor4th]

BIB1+2 Are you watching todays testimony? I only ask because OP admitted that much of his testimony was/is reconstruction, including using hundreds of witness statements and photos and other evidence. He repudiates much of his bail affidavit and blames his lawyers for misunderstanding what he told them. OP is a liar, by your definition and by mine. :smile:

No, he doesn't repudiate much of his bail affidavit.

 

[04009margaret]

He needs a reason to be out of the room so that he doesn't see or hear Reeva leave the bed and tiptoe silently across the floor to the bathroom. The fans are as good a reason as any to be out of the room, but he could have also said he was hot and went to get some air on the balcony. No proof at all that the fannytale is true.

And the most important point he couldn't make any clearer, is that he believes he's going to get off because of tainted/disturbed & planted evidence.

 

[jay-jay]

Reeva didn't have to put up with anything.

She choose to be with him.

I know that, nastasya .. I probably didn't explain myself very well (was making reference to those texts where she documented his behaviour towards her .. and his behaviour at this trial is confirming that). I know she chose to be with him and it's clear that she wanted to try and make the relationship work because she was totally smitten by him (that's how it comes across to me, anyway, that she was smitten).

 

[minor4th]

I'm at the part where Nel is asking if he intended to shoot at the intruders. This is a mess.

Nel is saying that Oscar claimed to fire his weapon accidentally. Huh?