Trial Discussion Thread #21 - 14.04.09, Day 19

[luvmygarden]

I believe Nel is treating OP like the petulance child and getting him to answer not argue. Results, OP has changed his attitude abit. This is not going to be the rambling the defense allowed. Now OP has to actually answer the questions. He better get it straight for his own sake. Seems OP likes to talk and not listen. The rambling might be getting him in for more questions by prosecution Oh well...

 

[04009margaret]

I agree, it needs to be said in a trial.

By 'tactless' I meant as soon as he said it I just thought of June Steenkamp straight away and how awfully real that must have made it all seem.

I see what you are saying, but I knew she would have wanted that, if that was my daughter I would have told Nel to go harder. I'm glad it's been reported that the family were aware of what was coming. From everything I've read about Nel he is described as a man of immense integrity, so I was sure he would have consulted with them prior to court

 

[AlwaysShocked]

The importance of this point of whether OP went out onto to the balcony or did not go out onto the balcony is that all along everyone thought he had gone out onto to the balcony and that's when Reeva got up out of bed and went into the bathroom.

If he never actually left the room, but rather just pulled the standing fan from the doorway into the bedroom, how could he have failed to see or hear her get out of bed?

I expect to see Nels close in on one point after another like this.

 

[jay-jay]

I don't see this nit-picking getting Nel anywhere... he is just short of questioning the punctuation in the bail application.
It is obvious what the story is regarding the fans. Let it go Nel.

I do ..

Op NEVER said he was on the balcony when he heard the noise. It was always after he shut the door and drew to curtains, and so unless OP could do that while on the balcony, jump off and runaround the house and back up to the bedroom... he clearly drew the curtains while in the bedroom????

I don't believe that is why he is questionning him on it .. he is doing so because there are discrepancies all the way through between what OP stated on his affidavit and the evidence he has given in court over the past few days. These things need to be picked up on, each individual one may not seem like much but overall it was show that OP's account is not reliable.

 

[MeeBee]

He read every expert witness report & his testimony was constructed around those reports & witness statements. Listen carefully to his words, he doesn't remember a lot of things, so his testimony was not all his memory

Anything he didn't remember he made mention if it and concluded it must have happened because it's in evidence (he doesn't remember calling Baba, for instance). I understood what Nel was asking but OP didn't.

 

[DebinGA]

That state psych guy attending trial must have told Nel how to push OP's buttons, and that's what he's doing. He wants OP's unnatural, studied caution to be broken and his natural self-centered, pugnacious personality to be revealed.

 

[Val1]

Problem is with kicking a dog too hectically while its down is he wont be strong enough to stand up to face any kind of music then.

The only one down is RS. As for the perp, you can see how he's biting back, where are the tears now?

 

[04009margaret]

Do you think he should be pussy footing around then, in order not to upset the accused? I don't.

No, he's now gone too soft. He needs to find a middle ground. It's obvious OP testified not from his recollection but from the evidence

 

[Rumpole]

I'd never call this nit-picking. It's an attorney being thorough for the benefit of their case. Now - if Nel asks the same question 17 times in 14 different ways - then I may concede nit-pickery. :biggrin:

Nit picking and trying to get OP to say something he has NEVER said... just so Nel can say "Aha! You could not hear a noise from out on the balcony" When OP never said he could ( and Nel has no idea what you can or can't hear from the balcony anyway) is a complete waste of time... no matter how many times Nel asks it.

The fact is that the State contention about the shots being at 3:17 is impossible... their case is already toast.
[modsnip]

 

[soozieqtips]

Pumza Fihlani BBC News

tweets: #Pistorius a bit stuck. Wants to see his bail application.
Nel accuses him of arguing and thinking of other evidence while trying to answer.

11:54: Mr Nel again repeats his accusation that Mr Pistorius is arguing rather than answering his questions.
Mr Nel says the athlete is "sitting there not listening to the questions, thinking about evidence".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-26951686

Seems as if the true OP just cannot hide who he is on the stand. Even when he needs to keep his cool and appear humble, his natural character comes through. First, minimising what he did: "It was a mistake"... and now getting argumentative with Nel. And did I really hear OP say he'd never changed his version since his affidavit? Or was that a 'mistake' and he didn't say it?

 

[Val1]

R: You said there is a lot of things that counsel didn't put in it that they should?

O: I cannot think of-off the top of my head it would be Reeva speaking to me as I sat up in bed...phoning Baba...I guess there is a lot things.

bbm - Hahaha, how about that he had said she was sleeping and not awake at all in his first version.

 

[zwiebel]

BIB I missed that. Do you remember what Nel read?

No, not really, it got confused. It was Nel 'leading', (though he said it was Roux) so it was the question that was put to Botha that elicited the 'OP said he was out on the balcony' response, I guess?

Just after that, Roux interjected that it wasn't him leading in that statement, Nel rectified it was himself...and then it all got even messier.

 

[jay-jay]

This is going to take a very long time if Nel does not get on and ask clearly what it is he wants answered. I am sure OP can cope.

I wonder if it is a language problem... is English a second language for Nel?

Of course it's going to take a long time, mainly because OP won't admit the truth .. so his whole version of events will now have to be picked apart. Perhaps that was the 'method in his madness'* of including so much extraneous information is that he thought it would make it so long winded for the prosecution to go through, that they would give up. Nice attempt, Oscar!


*that is just a figure of speech, by the way, it doesn't (necessarily) mean someone is mad

 

[steveml]

Are you saying that as the prosecutor he doesn't have the right to confront the perpetrator with the evidence from the crime that he's being charged with?

I didn't say that.

Therefore I have no reply.

 

[Gavel Rash]

Every single thing that Oscar says is orchestrated to ensure he safe. In a cupboard, behind his mother, his sister, his car, his gun, his image. Preservation of self is his main game. Survival instant from someone definitely psychologically damaged by his disability. He manipulates his every answer, your every answer, Reevas every word. He seeks to control every moment. And now he faces the reality of Nel and the consequences of his actions. Wild indeed. Even when faced with his orchestrated lies he reassembles it over again to suit his version.

 

[jay-jay]

Every single thing that Oscar says is orchestrated to ensure he safe. In a cupboard, behind his mother, his sister, his car, his gun, his image. Preservation of self is his main game. Survival instant from someone definitely psychologically damaged by his disability. He manipulates his every answer, your every answer, Reevas every word. He seeks to control every moment. And now he faces the reality of Nel and the consequences of his actions. Wild indeed. Even when faced with his orchestrated lies he reassembles it over again to suit his version.

.. just goes to show what Reeva had to put up with in the relationship, doesn't it?

 

[zwiebel]

Well, what is actually being said in this part of the trial is eluding me - it's going round the houses.

But just this little bit of cross has show, to me in my opinion, that:

Treated gently and deferentially, OP becomes emotional and pliable and vague.

Challenged, he argues back and has a fine eye for detail.

 

[Viper]

Nit picking and trying to get OP to say something he has NEVER said... just so Nel can say "Aha! You could not hear a noise from out on the balcony" When OP never said he could ( and Nel has no idea what you can or can't hear from the balcony anyway) is a complete waste of time... no matter how many times Nel asks it.

The fact is that the State contention about the shots being at 3:17 is impossible... their case is already toast.
[modsnip]

OP finally gave a reference of time! He said he spent 5 minutes holding Reeva after he killed her.

 

[Carol70]

Not sure if I am allowed to post this? Photo of her head wound as published by our very popular local magazine YOU. http://you.co.za/news/warning-graphic-images-of-reevas-head-in-court/

Very Graphic
(please adjust or delete if not allowed)

Good god!

 

[Gavel Rash]

The door of the toilet opens out wards only doesn't it?