Trial Discussion Thread #21 - 14.04.09, Day 19

[04009margaret]

Not sure if I am allowed to post this? Photo of her head wound as published by our very popular local magazine YOU. http://you.co.za/news/warning-graphic-images-of-reevas-head-in-court/

Very Graphic
(please adjust or delete if not allowed)

He should be made to look at that photo for the rest of his life

 

[kittychi]

Well, what is actually being said in this part of the trial is eluding me - it's going round the houses.

But just this little bit of cross has show, to me in my opinion, that:

Treated gently and deferentially, OP becomes emotional and pliable and vague.

Challenged, he argues back and has a fine eye for detail.

I am ready for Nel to let OP ramble awhile.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Not as bad as the JFK autopsy photos.

 

[04009margaret]

So if he never went onto the balcony how could he not hear, feel (the movement) or notice even if only a passing shadow of Reeva going off to the toilet ?

Because he doesn't know if it's something he read or something he remembers. Nel has done a brilliant job at showing that

 

[BritsKate]

Every single thing that Oscar says is orchestrated to ensure he safe. In a cupboard, behind his mother, his sister, his car, his gun, his image. Preservation of self is his main game. Survival instant from someone definitely psychologically damaged by his disability. He manipulates his every answer, your every answer, Reevas every word. He seeks to control every moment. And now he faces the reality of Nel and the consequences of his actions. Wild indeed. Even when faced with his orchestrated lies he reassembles it over again to suit his version.

I've pointed it out before but Oscar's survival instinct is contrary to my disabled husband's - who has nearly no mobility at all, with legs intact. My husband is well aware of his physical limitations and doesn't seek situations that put him at even more of an immediate disadvantage.

Obviously my husband isn't the poster boy for all disabled people everywhere but my experiences with him make Oscar's version that much more unbelievable for me.

MOO

 

[Gavel Rash]

So tell me Oscar about the websites you were looking at over dinner? Because that wasn't a lie either...the time you had dinner, is it?

Oscar has also never been asked about the hole in the door, the jeans on the ground, either pair or what he and Reeva had for dinner...it's going to be a long cross.

 

[Val1]

BIB If OP shifted evidence of the events between 1) going to bed and 2) killing Reeva that is very telling. Besides not going on to the patio, what else did he "shift?"

The big one that comes to mind for me is that it went from being pitch black, couldn't see anything to being able to see RS's jeans on the floor and picking them up to put over a led light that bothered him but still supposedly unable to see that RS wasn't in the bed.

 

[Cherry]

8:00AM EST... trust me, I'm a Time Lord

Danke !!

 

[Rumpole]

OP finally gave a reference of time! He said he spent 5 minutes holding Reeva after he killed her.

OOps

I thought you said 5 mins between bat and shots... which is what Op actually said... I just saw a post that pointed that out... This is what fits....

....perfectly with all State witnesses we herad, an aparently the 100 we didn't hear as well as OP version all along. It also fits the time line I have TRIED to point out makes the State contention about shots at 3:17 impossible.

It seems that Nel is the only person who did not get the memo :floorlaugh:


The State case that OP shot at 3:17 has been toast from day one. It was "still-born" as a hypothesis. Which means that all the screams WERE OP... so no evidence of an argument and Reeva screaming for her life etc... its all nonsense.
Time for Nel to give up on that tack and start arguing the facts of the case... that OP shot thinking there was an intruder(s)

 

[04009margaret]

Nel is calling OP out on every, itty bitty discrepancy. It's becoming a semantics game though because OP is arguing back rather than answering.

More will come after lunch.

As Roux did with the state's witnesses

 

[Cherry]

Good god!

Sadly this is what murder is, to censor any of it only makes ppl dull to the reality of what we r capable of as human beings.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Roux and Nel have both been around the same courthouses for many years, correct? So theoretically each knows how the other works. OP on the stand for cross examination would have to be Roux's worst nightmare. But putting him on the stand was unavoidable so he knew he would have to live with it.

Wonder how much preparation time was spent with Oscar? Fake cross exams, designed to get a rise out of him? Questions designed to make him angry?

The various State witnesses seemed to be quite well prepared. With the notable exception of one or two of the "professionals". The lay witnesses were quite strong under Roux's relentless grilling.

Yet, already it does not seem that Oscar is holding up well under cross. Roux can and will try to help him out with objections. But basically Oscar will do his own damage to himself.

 

[Carol70]

OP finally gave a reference of time! He said he spent 5 minutes holding Reeva after he killed her.

I actually think he said it was 5 minutes between shots and bat but could be wrong. From bangs heard at 3.17 until he made his first call is 2 mins, 3.19am. He must have held her for maybe a minute however, I wont argue that if you sit and look at a clock now, a minute can seem endless.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Thank you everyone for the posts. I have been let out of school early :great: and am now going to catch up. It seems that they have broken for lunch.

 

[Viper]

Houston, we have a problem!!! I don't see how Mr. Roux is going to correct OP's ability to answer these questions appropriately in just the one hour break. I don't know why I had thought Mr. Roux had spent days, weeks, or even months preparing 0P, asking him tough questions and coaching him on his answers. Obviously has not!

 

[04009margaret]

I'd never call this nit-picking. It's an attorney being thorough for the benefit of their case. Now - if Nel asks the same question 17 times in 14 different ways - then I may concede nit-pickery. :biggrin:

Where were all the complaints about Roux & his nit-picking & twisting the witnesses words, funny how some cry foul when the state does it to bring out the truth

 

[Cherwell]

The door of the toilet opens out wards only doesn't it?

Yes it does. So not so easy for someone to slam it from inside.

 

[james83]

Houston, we have a problem!!! I don't see how Mr. Roux is going to correct OP's ability to answer these questions appropriately in just the one hour break. I don't know why I had thought Mr. Roux had spent days, weeks, or even months preparing 0P, asking him tough questions and coaching him on his answers. Obviously has not!

I dont think op is even allowed to speak to his team whilst he is being cross examined?.

 

[atthelake]

Waking up here as couldn't stay up last night....catch up time!

Thanks for the posts for me to review during lunch. :blowkiss: for those that do the summaries during the trial

 

[G.bng]

N asks OP a question and O stops him, wants time to read through the statement.

Still going back and forth with the on/off the balcony thing. OP maintains he did not go out on the balcony.

Lunch.

I am not really sure what all this is about.....why does Nel want OP out on the balcony so much? Wouldn't that mean he was more likely not to hear Reeva get up and go to the bathroom?

Exactly, OP would be much less likely to hear a noise so it seemed to me that Nel confused Botha's version of OP being out on the balcony and hearing a noise, with OP's actual bail affi in which it was clear in the affi OP was back inside when he heard the noise.