Trial Discussion Thread #21 - 14.04.09, Day 19

[jay-jay]

The big one that comes to mind for me is that it went from being pitch black, couldn't see anything to being able to see RS's jeans on the floor and picking them up to put over a led light that bothered him but still supposedly unable to see that RS wasn't in the bed.

Yes, that's a good point. Also, he says that he was looking down the corridor for the intruder (not exact words, I need to look them up, but he definitley used the word 'looking') .. yet he would never have been able to see them, because of this 'pitch blackness' (which has been reinforced by introducing the 'black out curtains' and the covering of the LED light)

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Roux said he spoke with OP during the adjournment regarding the showing of the video tape.

 

[Val1]

No, not really, it got confused. It was Nel 'leading', (though he said it was Roux) so it was the question that was put to Botha that elicited the 'OP said he was out on the balcony' response, I guess?

Just after that, Roux interjected that it wasn't him leading in that statement, Nel rectified it was himself...and then it all got even messier.

My understanding was that he was clarifying whether what OP had told Botha was the truth. I could be wrong, it wouldn't be unusual if you believe my husband...

 

[wb180]

Why does he want to read the statement. Just answer the question as it is a question on the night that OP would know firsthand.

 

[kaos]

Yes it does. So not so easy for someone to slam it from inside.

You'd also have thought if he heard a slam then the 'intruder' would already be out of the toilet so it would have been safer for him to just stand at the beginning of the passage with his gun instead of going down it.

 

[Rumpole]

Lets hope Nel calms down and gets a grip over the lunch break.

At the moment he looks like wasting a lot of time getting nowhere.

He needs to actually focus on the issues left to determine... issues around was it reasonable for OP to think there was an intruder etc.

There is no point in persisting with "shots fired at 3:17"

 

[jay-jay]

OOps

I thought you said 5 mins between bat and shots... which is what Op actually said... I just saw a post that pointed that out... This is what fits....

....perfectly with all State witnesses we herad, an aparently the 100 we didn't hear as well as OP version all along. It also fits the time line I have TRIED to point out makes the State contention about shots at 3:17 impossible.

It seems that Nel is the only person who did not get the memo :floorlaugh:


The State case that OP shot at 3:17 has been toast from day one. It was "still-born" as a hypothesis. Which means that all the screams WERE OP... so no evidence of an argument and Reeva screaming for her life etc... its all nonsense.
Time for Nel to give up on that tack and start arguing the facts of the case... that OP shot thinking there was an intruder(s)

Of course it fits with that .. because he has made his story fit that, after hearing all the witness testimonies! The point is that someone who suddenly realises their mistake .. and then later proports to have been trying to rush her to hospital .. would not be sitting their for 5 mins with her, holding her .. they would be doing everything they could to get her to hospital *straight away*.

 

[canny]

I don't see this nit-picking getting Nel anywhere... he is just short of questioning the punctuation in the bail application.
It is obvious what the story is regarding the fans. Let it go Nel.

Op NEVER said he was on the balcony when he heard the noise. It was always after he shut the door and drew to curtains, and so unless OP could do that while on the balcony, jump off and runaround the house and back up to the bedroom... he clearly drew the curtains while in the bedroom????

Sweating? How on earth would OP have been able to CLOSE the balcony door then close the curtain and blinds when ONE BIG fans leg was still in the balcony !!!!

According to his sworn affidavit he went INTO the balcony and brought in ONE fan.

A quote from his sworn affidavit

16.18 I am absolutely mortified by the events and the devastating loss of my beloved Reeva. With the benefit of hindsight I believe that Reeva went to the toilet when I went out on the balcony to bring the fan in. I cannot bear to think of the suffering I have caused her and her family, knowing how much she was loved. I also know that the events of that tragic night were as I have described them and that in due course I have no doubt the police and expert investigators will bear this out.

Now he has changed his yarn to not entering INTO the balcony at all to bring any fan into the bedroom, he just moved the big one placed the front two legs into the bedroom leaving the rear leg out into the balcony.The smaller fan he claims to have placed at the feet of the huge fan.

Therefore tell me how did he manage to close the balcony door?

OP's tale of getting up and bringing in the fans is bogus.

They never went to sleep at all that night.

Reeva's personal belongings found in the bedroom contradict all the evidence given by OP by a mile !

OP and Standers daughter had to come up with a desperate story as to why he did not notice Reeva wasn't in the bed, fortunately there is not such thing as a prefect murder!

 

[Insp.Dots]

Hi Guys, will catch up properly later.
Wow,......I was expecting to see the head shot but it still hits home doesn't it?

This IS what happens when a gun is fired, FWIW I still think OP is like a spoilt child who is possibly for the first time ever having to face up to the consequences of his actions.
I think his remorse is genuine as many who are actually in court have said.
He is crying for himself as well as Reeva.....

I think the Judge will sway towards UN-intentional, Culpable Homicide BUT also pretty sure he is going to get a fair length of prison time. All MOO.

I do admit as others have, I feel sad watching this wreck of a man, BUT I do believe in facing consequences, and OP is responsible for Reeva's death, whether or not intended.
Much as I have been transfixed to watching this trial (more than any other I can't see it as right or fair to anyone.

This would be viewed IMO very differently by many had it been a normal members of the Public and not celebrity. The saving grace perhaps is that this judge is doing everything in her power to make it fair and she WILL judge on FACTS.

I haven't read this thread yet, but I imagine some will be saying she should tell him and Roux to buckle up and get on with it, again I think she is doing right in giving them every chance to present his case with as little pressure as possible!

I bet if this was over in the UK, she'd probably be knighted by the end of the year for services to Justice.

In the UK, when sentencing they take into account if the person is a danger to society and whether a Prison or whatever they decide would be helpful/relevant.....they concentrate on Rehabilitation of Offender as much as punishment.
Is it the same in SA?

 

[Suthrnqt]

Exactly, OP would be much less likely to hear a noise so it seemed to me that Nel confused Botha's version of OP being out on the balcony and hearing a noise, with OP's actual bail affi in which it was clear in the affi OP was back inside when he heard the noise.

IMO, Nel wanted OP to confirm he was not on the balcony. Therefore, it would be just about impossible to miss Reeva getting up to go to the toilet. I am just speculating here.

 

[Val1]

Not as bad as the JFK autopsy photos.

Or TA's were, as well as the photo shoot ones of JA.:sick:

 

[atthelake]

CNN is airing live courtroom feed.

Did they the entire time? Wonder if they will do the coverage after lunch live? Did they say or was it just for late nite fill in vs. coverage of 370?

 

[Viper]

If the whole thing is an elaborate fabrication, even if he is well rehearsed, his emotion can trip him up if he answers without thinking first.

The monkey inside his head must be peddling like crazy! :floorlaugh:

He is not coming across as someone just recounting the events, as I feel I would in that situation. He remembers too many minor points (which is due to roux's training of course) but it does come across as very stilted, e.g. "I shouted help, help, help three times" as said yesterday. I find that odd that you would so much detail. It would ring more truthful if OP would say,"I shouted and screamed for help," but for OP everything is said to fit. Which was the first thing Nel was hinting at of course when he asked what he actually remembered and what was from witness statements.

 

[kittychi]

OOps

I thought you said 5 mins between bat and shots... which is what Op actually said... I just saw a post that pointed that out... This is what fits....

....perfectly with all State witnesses we herad, an aparently the 100 we didn't hear as well as OP version all along. It also fits the time line I have TRIED to point out makes the State contention about shots at 3:17 impossible.

It seems that Nel is the only person who did not get the memo :floorlaugh:


The State case that OP shot at 3:17 has been toast from day one. It was "still-born" as a hypothesis. Which means that all the screams WERE OP... so no evidence of an argument and Reeva screaming for her life etc... its all nonsense.
Time for Nel to give up on that tack and start arguing the facts of the case... that OP shot thinking there was an intruder(s)

Its okay....they can change it and tailor it to fit with what they have read and heard during the trial

 

[jay-jay]

I'm gonna miss most of this avvie's proceedings .. got an opticians appointment .. bet I end up being late because I'm glued to this ! :scared:

 

[steveml]

Lets hop Nel calms down and gets a grip over the lunch break.

At the moment he looks like wasting a lot of time getting nowhere.

He needs to actually focus on the issues left to determine... issues around was it reasonable for OP to think there was an intruder etc.

There is no point in persisting with "shots fired at 3:17"

Exactly.

If the current line of questioning isn't leading anywhere I can't see Judge Masipa being too impressed.

 

[04009margaret]

I dont think op is even allowed to speak to his team whilst he is being cross examined?.

It will be disguised as comforting/consoling

 

[BritsKate]

Exactly.

If the current line of questioning isn't leading anywhere I can't see Judge Masipa being too impressed.

I'm certain she'll prompt Nel if that's the case - much as she did Roux on cross a time or two.

 

[zwiebel]

Ooohhh. Feed flashed on noisily and then went off. Gave me a heart attack.

 

[jay-jay]

Exactly.

If the current line of questioning isn't leading anywhere I can't see Judge Masipa being too impressed.

I'm pretty sure a number of us have explained upthread that it most certainly is leading somewhere ..