Trial Discussion Thread #22 - 14.04.10, Day 20

[aa9511]

Nel is really bugging me now - he's asking taunting and mocking questions that really have nothing at all to do with guilt or innocence

Isn't that what Roux did with ALL of the witnesses he crossed?? Talk about double-standard.

 

[sleuth-d-]

Indeed. Either way there's an issue - Oscar maintains it was he who was screaming, not Reeva, yet these neighbors apparently didn't hear any screams - a woman's or not.


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

interesting that op introduced screaming like a woman after hearing all the witness accounts.
all part of op trying to cover all the known witness statements, evidence etc.

the complication being that op version appears to be changing every session. which will mean the cross goes on longer and longer.

 

[Val1]

Sorry, I didn't make that clear. I mean it could possibly have an affect on the overall outcome. What I mean (sorry I'm tired at mo ) and bothers me is that if the Judge gives him the benefit of doubt in the long run because she can't be sure of some pieces of evidence, it would be a travesty in getting Justice for Reeva and her family.

My reason for pause with regard to this is an Interview that Hilton Botha gave very early on (sorry cannot link) when he said he assumed straight away it was Murder, OP had admitted firing the gun so he saw no reason to worry too much about wearing gloves and collection of evidence.
In his opinion they had there man and he'd admitted killing Reeva, end of story.

He was shortly after kicked off the case and then the charges he faced came out and out of the Police.

Some said he was at the end of his police service, he'd come up against OP before and didn't like his attitude. Some others go as far as saying, that when he realized OP was claiming self-defence, he couldn't believe it and altered certain things at the scene.
I suspect as with most things in this case, there are bits of truth in this mixed with untruths. I hope they call him, he is on the list.

I genuinely hope Reeva gets Justice and was horrified that his or others lacking could have happened at all. ALL MOO, hope it makes sense

I'd like to hear from the officer that introduced himself to OP at the crime scene as a friend of OP's family and that he would look after him.... this according to OP yesterday.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Maybe there was no signal in the toilet (if she had it in there).
We don't know where it actually was, only that OP said he found it in the toilet.

I have a feeling it was in the toilet but she couldn't get a signal .
I think the phone light is what mrs stipp's saw .
A faint light ,not like the bathroom light .

 

[BritsKate]

Also in the photo, we can see the duvet is on the floor.
Pistorius says he doesn't know how it got there, neither he nor Reeva put it there.
But Mr Nel refers to a police officer's evidence that he was the first to go upstairs and he found the duvet on the floor.
Pistorius says when he got out of the bed, the duvet was on it - and it was covering the bottom part of Reeva's legs.
Mr Nel: "Ah, so you saw THAT. How do you know that?"
OP: "I moved it over."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/oscar-p...-prosecutor-20140410-36fn3.html#ixzz2yUfTog5I

 

[soozieqtips]

"If Reeva had come out or if she had spoken to me,
I would not have fired,” he says.

When exactly did he give her a chance to come out or speak to him? He didn't even wait for her to respond to him when he 'whispered' "Call the police" and "Get down low" before charging off to the bathroom to kill the 'intruder'. So during what time frame was Reeva supposed to have spoken to him to avoid being murdered when he's already admitted he shot without any thought?

 

[aa9511]

This is going to go badly - already Oscar is breaking down.

I just don't think that this is an effective strategy for Nel. It just generates sympathy for Oscar when he makes him cry

No sympathy from me! Tough Man Oscar was tough enough to buy numerous guns, yet not tough enough to handle some questions? If he was Tough Man Oscar, playing around with guns, then he should be Tough enough to handle the questions which result from the use of those guns.

JMO.

 

[kaos]

I remember mentioning the duvet being at the base was weird because we were led to believe his prosthetics were kept at the base instead (can't remember where the legs at the base came from now though!) of them being at the side as Samantha Taylor had testified to. It made me think at the time that it would have meant him getting his prosthetics back on more difficult if it was dark when he came back to put them on.

 

[kittychi]

On the ammo charge, I do suspect that OP bought the ammo with the intention of getting the relevant firearm.
It's one of those things whereby an extra charge arises from an unrelated incident, the same as the Tasha's and sunroof incidents.

It doesn't matter. If they charged him, then its illegal to own that ammo.

 

[asanque]

Some said he was at the end of his police service, he'd come up against OP before and didn't like his attitude. Some others go as far as saying, that when he realized OP was claiming self-defence, he couldn't believe it and altered certain things at the scene.

I put it to you that any contention that Botha changed the crime scene had to occur in the short time before the photographer arrived (timestamps on photos) and more importantly without 'any knowledge' of what OP's story was.

 

[Interested Bystander]

According to Van Staden it was already on the floor.


http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/blood-spatter-above-oscar-s-bed-cop-1.1662525#.U0aXkvldWMM

Thank you. Good thing I don't need to be a witness 'cos I wouldn't remember half of what I had seen or heard.

 

[G.bng]

I have said many times i think he deserves culpable homicide.

I do think it means he did it without intent, yep.

So what you are saying is that, even though OP was apparently absolutely convinced there was an intruder coming out of that door of the toilet to attack him and Reeva, and even though he was filled with panic and fear, he didn't "intend" to shoot at the intruder ? I.e. that he "accidentally" shot at the intruder hidden behind the door coming out to attack them ?

So are you now saying OP a saint ? Because if I had a gun, which I would never have precisely for this reason, and I genuinely believed, I was totally convinced as he claims to have been, that there was an intruder coming through that door and about to attack me and the person I was with, I would also be filled with fear and panic just as OP claims he was and I would have for sure lost it like he did and shot not 4 times but until the bullets ran out. But that, imo is certainly not culpable homicide but murder, more especially considering that he made no attempt to move away from the confrontation, rather to the contrary he went straight as a die towards it.

 

[turaj]

Everything is about his "understanding" of the law...possession is not really possession. Wow...as Nell said...why did he go with not guilty. I'll bet Roux is ready to walk.

 

[sleuth-d-]

"If Reeva had come out or if she had spoken to me,
I would not have fired,” he says.

When exactly did he give her a chance to come out or speak to him? He didn't even wait for her to respond to him when he 'whispered' "Call the police" and "Get down low" before charging off to the bathroom to kill the 'intruder'. So during what time frame was Reeva supposed to have spoken to him to avoid being murdered when he's already admitted he shot without any thought?

interesting language by op.
your quote could be another little piece of the truth. of the argument they were having

possibly ending in impasse from either side of the toilet door. where she was refusing to talk to him.

 

[turaj]

bbm

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Nel is starting to remind me more and more of my dear Juan

I said a few 1000 posts ago that Nell is the JM of SA.

 

[aa9511]

I'm surprised by this type of cross examination .. not used to it in U.S. trials .. it's almost like he's tormenting op .. or maybe it's because it's a judge trial ? .. never seen a judge trial so maybe that happens in those as well, even in the U.S. ?

I'm sorry, but I think it just seems like "tormenting" b/c of Oscar's acting job on the stand. Of course someone is going to look "tormented" when they break down sobbing, wailing, and making donkey noises.

I am just not getting all this sympathy for Oscar. To me it is plain to see what he's doing. Whenever he gets caught or has to take responsibility for something, he starts his sobbing session. Court comes to a pause, he doesn't have to answer more questions until after the break. Or he forces Nel to move on with his questioning. It's simply b/c the present lines of questioning makes him, Oscar, uncomfortable.

JMO.

 

[Interested Bystander]

He appeared very flat in his objections today

Almost depressed, I would say. Pour Roux, he must wonder what he has taken on. How on earth does one keep up with so many changes.

 

[Val1]

I put it to you that any contention that Botha changed the crime scene had to occur in the short time before the photographer arrived (timestamps on photos) and more importantly without 'any knowledge' of what OP's story was.

And of course it couldn't have been during the time period when OP and the Standers were on their own in the house before Dr. Stipp arrived and later the paramedics, even though OP testified that when he went upstairs to get RS's purse for the paramedics he handed it to Ms Stander and then they both went downstairs... This was long after they'd already rummaged around finding extra towels, garbage bags and looked for rope/tape or whatever. :/

 

[Carmelita]

Is it true that OP will be a 'no-show' for court today because he is too emotionally upset? TIA.


Also, my previous question was never answered. For all you legal eagles on here, aren't clients usually instructed to stick with "yes" or "no" answers? TIA

Hi I'm not sure if this has been answered yet and I think Oscar is still under his defense attorney's questioning. (I'm not watching the trial) Anyhow Oscar can expound as much as he wants during the questioning by his own team, or at least until the judge tells him to put a sock in it or the prosecutor objects that Oscar is no longer addressing the answer posed and the judge sustains the objection.

When the prosecutor gets his turn he can demand yes and no answers.

 

[kaos]

I can't see Nel wrapping up tomorrow either as it would give the DT an opportunity to come up with some justifications for OP's testimony over the weekend. I thought he was going for a crescendo moment when he brought up the 'argument' but think he's still got a bit more questioning to make OP wriggle more.