Trial Discussion Thread #22 - 14.04.10, Day 20

[04009margaret]

Leaving aside the question of OP's guilt or innocence, his self-serving theatrics are offensive, certainly to Mrs. Steenkamp. How does he dare? And now moaning he never got a chance to tell Reeva he loved her! Has he no empathy or insight? His lawyers should tell him to tone it down. As tragic as he might consider Reeva's death FOR HIM, her mother must watch this carrying on; there is no comparing his situation to hers.
http://time.com/57127/pistorius-selfish-in-relationship-with-steenkamp/

I'm afraid there body language tells us they have, he can't be controlled by anyone. It's like Dr Stripp, OP knew better, same thing here.

 

[Emz73]

If OP is telling the truth....IF.....

why wouldn't Reeva use her phone to at least whisper to the police "help"
I have rang the police in a domestic situation before and never even spoke and they still came. She knew the intruder wasn't in the bathroom or toilet as most of OP shouting was done nearer the bedroom and of course she was in there herself.
If his version was true then she'd know he would have his gun out/searching...probably as he wasn't doing the calling of the police.

So she must of thought the intruder was the balconey or they were downstairs.

I can imagine she would stay quiet as a mouse and not reply.

So was she

A. frozen with fear (I would still ring the police unless her phone makes a noise when you enter numbers on the keypad)
B. thinking he was playing cruel mind games with her.
c. He does this regulary so she ignored him and waited for him to calm down.
D. She didn't hear the "Reeva get down and ring the police" and thought he was having a massive temper tantrum and was telling HER to get out of the house and she was wondering, god what have I done now? but stayed quiet not to inflame him anymore.

I know OP will say Its not his fault she didn't ring the police.


D.

 

[Val1]

I can't see Nel wrapping up tomorrow either as it would give the DT an opportunity to come up with some justifications for OP's testimony over the weekend. I thought he was going for a crescendo moment when he brought up the 'argument' but think he's still got a bit more questioning to make OP wriggle more.

Unless OP starts telling the straight truth without trying to evade answering every question Nel asks him, this could go on for another week... :facepalm:

 

[04009margaret]

So father sits there sipping coffee looking very proud of his son and the woman to his right (don't know who she is) smiles and seems very amused as OP is caught in lie after lie. Anyone know what her game is or who she is??? And now I heard that they really have had no relationship...I did not know that...indeed OP has not had a great family life...seems like aunt and uncle are much more engaged.

Have I missed something? Was OP's dad in court today?

 

[Val1]

Have I missed something? Was OP's dad in court today?

Honestly, I wasn't paying attention to the audience very much today. I thought I saw someone that I at first thought was OP's brother sitting rolling his eyes at OP's arguing, but it may have been Darren as people were saying he was there today.

 

[soozieqtips]

Unless OP starts telling the straight truth without trying to evade answering every question Nel asks him, this could go on for another week... :facepalm:

I think there's at least another 3 full days of questioning for OP. Nel still has an awful lot of ground to cover.

 

[04009margaret]

Maybe there was no signal in the toilet (if she had it in there).
We don't know where it actually was, only that OP said he found it in the toilet.

Another person that contaminated the crime scene

 

[Harmony 2]

Please stay on topic.. thanks

 

[jay-jay]

And the biggest conspiracy, the police planted the 2 fans, ipads, doona, curtains, patio door, all in the exact place needed to make it impossible to go to the balcony to scream help, help, help. But wait for it, they also turned the light on & placed the lead to the small fan under the speaker. Why did they do it? To discredit OP, even though at the time they had no idea what his version of events would be.

I'm just listening to bits of the trial again on youtube and Nel says this about OP's claim of police tampering with the scene .. "is this like a conspiracy? .. what is that they would do all this to you? <incredulous look> .. why do you think? .. why would the police do all this? <snipped>.. they didn't do it because they knew your version and they wanted to change the scene and not fit your version .. that is one thing you can exclude" 44:50 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwzV3uB9UrI

I remember Roux trying to throw everyone with regard to the crime scene photos and deliberately trying to confuse the issue by mixing some of the photos taken after the first lot of photos with the first photos taken of the crime scene, then accusing the crime scene photographer of having moved things around .. well yes, he did, but only after the first set of photos had been taken and they were taken exactly how things were found .. it was only after that when the more detailed photos were taken and where things had to be moved in order to see them/record them photographically .. things like the duvet (i.e. to see inside and take photo of blood spatter .. and then Reeva's phone in the bathroom .. it was found under a towel/mat, so that had to be lifted off the phone in order for that photo to be taken). IMO, Roux set all this thing up with regard to crime scene contamination and the unreliability of the photos way back earlier in the trial, just in order that when OP got to this point, he was able to say the same thing .. only, I knew at the time Roux was saying what he was that he was deliberately trying to confuse .. it was so damned obvious at the time, too.

 

[shane13]

Have I missed something? Was OP's dad in court today?

Probably the poster thinks uncle Arnold is his Dad? Henke has not been in Trial Court to the best of my knowledge.

 

[emmavoberry]

No taking of responsibility.
Doesn't make him a cold bloodied killer though, but I certainly wouldn't not feel safe as his new girlfriend.

Good comment. Perhaps the incident started out as pure emotional reaction, a reflexive scare-tactic and whoops, gun goes off and he just keeps going. But then, although that doesn't him a "cold blooded" killer, it makes him a beyond reckless one and a liar, if that's the truth. Perhaps he could have offered the Claundine Longet story. Instead of "intruders made me do it," he could have been demonstrating to her through bathroom door how to use the gun in HER defense. Or, okay, admitted he just started waving it at her and she ran and somehow it fired--similar to the time in the restaurant. Guns get in his hands and fire themselves. What I take away from your post is that it's possible, given his personality dynamics, that he did not mean to kill her, chased her with gun, found himself firing it when she wouldn't come out, and in reflection, honestly believes, cause it's true, that he didn't mean to kill her, therefore he gets a pass to fabricate a story to exonerate himself. Hm. I don't know if that makes him MORE horrible a character or less than I've thought. Agree. Not good boy-friend material.

 

[HauntsForHope]

Oscar has his friend put on this CD in the car after arguing at the party...



"..I am not some other ***** you may know trying to kill your vibe." - Reeva

Kendrick Lamar - *****, Don't Kill My Vibe (Explicit)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF8aaTu2kg0&feature=kp

 

[katydid23]

So, im struggling to keep up today but from what I can gather, all we have learnt as fact today is that OP is negligent with guns?...and we all knew that anyway as a woman is dead because of it.

BBM

I think we have learned a bit more than that. I have learned that he will stubbornly refuse to agree to even the most blatant facts. Like taking ownership of ammo in his own safe, and admitting to setting off the trigger on a gun that fired whilst in his own hands...and even for shooting 4 into the door.

 

[04009margaret]

The host on Oscar radio who is a legal expert states, "There is no court in the land that can find Oscar's story to be reliable or truthful. Oscar is in a lot of trouble."

 

[aa9511]

Nel asks about the tantrum Reeva mentions. Long, long pause.

O: I've definitely never thrown a tantrum in front of other people.....she was feeling upset, maybe exaggerated.

N: ,,,you've never thrown a tantrum in front of people, is that correct?

O: I never said I've never thrown a tantrum in front of people...

??? Yes he just did. I heard him.

bbm

This statement is very disturbing to me. He says he never threw a tantrum in front of other people. To me, what that's saying is that he makes sure he does it behind closed doors - one image presented to the outside world, and yet a different Oscar behind closed doors. The "in front of other people" just he added in unconsciously.

JMO.

 

[katydid23]

On the messaging "I love you" front, addressed by Nel.

2/3 months into a relationship, there's no danger I'd say "I love you" to a partner after that short space of time, even if I felt that way.

Notably, Reeva hadn't said it to Oscar either, so unsure why Nel's unfairly picking Oscar up on it?

I think it was because of his apology to her parents, when he said ' she felt loved that night.' And because he has maintained they were both so much in love. So the obvious question is ' did he ever tell her so?'

 

[jay-jay]

I think he got confused for a minute because there is another instance where uses the word where it does sound like she's saying she's scared of falling for him and being with him because of his publicity and, presumably, the harassment she had begun to receive. And I think he realized Nel was talking about something else which is why he changed his answer accordingly because that does sound like what she was saying in that moment, that she was scared of his behavior toward her sometimes.

BBM: yes, that's what it meant

I don't see why he would've been confused about it .. he had the WhatsApp message there right in front of him with Reeva's words where she says she is scared of him and the way he might react to her .. all those messages were being shown on the screen as Nel was taking him through them, cross examining.

 

[turaj]

Probably the poster thinks uncle Arnold is his Dad? Henke has not been in Trial Court to the best of my knowledge.

So the uncle is Arnold and he wears a headset most of the time and is sitting next to a woman (aunt) with a very nice bob style hair style (white)...I took them to be the uncle and aunt...there is another heavier guy with white hair sitting next to a woman with white on today...next to them down a bit are the two friends once of which is Darren...that is what I am seeing...I would like to know if that man with suit next to woman in white is not the father. Maybe just another relative. What exactly is his relationship with the father..I don't know much.

 

[aa9511]

O: I think she was scared of the feelings she had for me (in explanation for why Reeva said she was scared of him)....I never shouted or screamed at her......

I never shouted or screamed at Samantha Taylor, I screamed at one of her friends once...

OP then says 'there were many lies' in Sam's evidence, and N asks why Roux didn't correct that on cross then?

bbm

Of course, he didn't throw tantrums, donchaknow, that's just Reeva's own exxagerating and insecurity. Donchaknow?? Not meeee. Neeeever me.

 

[nastasya]

If screams of a female were heard by neighbours, why did the closest ones not hear?

Distance is not the only variable.

I can hear cars 1/4 mile away on the freeway close to my house but not my neighbors cars pulling into the parking garage 50 meters away.