Trial Discussion Thread #22 - 14.04.10, Day 20

[clearskies1]

Why do you think he changed his story from going out on the balcony to never leaving the bedroom?

My opinion: Because now his back is to the bedroom as he pulls the fans in -- not facing forward where he can easily see the room.

 

[G.bng]

I believe it means one bullet is always left loaded in the chamber ready to go. To fire more you'd have to do something to load from the magazine into the chamber. ? slide? something.

An automatic is just that, automatic. You keep one in the chamber so it is ready to just shoot without having to or slide or whatever... that's not for modern pistols. Once you fire the one in the chamber the next in the magazine chambers automatically, hence the name automatic, and you can continue shooting until the magazine is empty by just pressing the trigger again and again.

 

[dodie20]

I've been wondering about what got Oscar extremely mad on that night.
I believe from evidence that they were arguing. I've often wondered why Oscar hadn't put his legs on as I imagine him feeling more powerful and in control that way. I find it hard to visualise a heated escalating argument between them and he remains on his stumps willingly.
I've also felt from text messages that Reeva has a bit of fight in her and might have argued back stronger that night, called him out on his actions and behaviour and doing something to level the playing field.
One theory I've pondered is -
In the heated argument in and around the bed or even downstairs Reeva grabbed Oscar's prosthetic legs from by the bed and took them with her. Maybe she had them in the bedroom and locked the door. Maybe she had them in the toilet? Just a theory and I know it can't be proved but it fits for me.

One thing that caught my eye was when he said he didn't use her phone because he didn't have the pass code. And after he retrieved her purse, (for whoever it was), he made the point to say he didn't go through it. IMO, this could be him distancing himself for some reason. Also IMO, I think there's a chance that the fight had to do with something he saw on her phone. Maybe something small that escalated. I don't think it's likely that he didn't know her pass code, but that in itself could be grounds for an argument. All moo.

 

[G.bng]

So it can account for the gap between first shot and 3 following shots?

No. No gap. In an automatic for self defence it is normal to load it with one in the chamber. Each time you press the trigger it fires the one in the chamber and the next in the magazine chambers automatically.

 

[Chelly]

See attached screenshots

Those are photos, not the actual fans and cords. I am questioning why the actual fans and cords are not in evidence (or are they?) The fans' cord length would prove if the large and small fans could have been placed where OP claims he put them.....at the foot of the bed. Nel insists the cords are not long enough.

 

[nastasya]

They went through everything on all devices. If there'd between anything suspicious the PT would have already entered it, I'm sure.

The prosecution did enter all the records from the phones and iPads into evidence.

What's going to happen is that the killer will lie about something like he did about not knowing the word "Zombie Stopper" and then Nel will pull out evidence to call him on his lies.

For example, <modsnip> phone accessed the internet for 5 minutes at 1:52 am. Who knows for what?

It's possible Nel has records from the site the <modsnip> phone accessed, maybe Facebook, maybe gmail, it could be anything. This wouldn't be required to produce in the prosecution's case. But when the <modsnip> lies about it, Nel will confront him.

 

[Gryffindor]

Wonder what Reeva's family and friends current opinion is on his degree of guilt?

 

[Trooper]

trip 1. downstairs to open the doors for the 'approaching ambulance'.. ( despite instructions to Standar, Standar tells Stipp that he hasn't rung one yet, he directs Baba to do it. ) Oscar is going to drive Reeva himself, because Net care told him to.

Trip 2. back upstairs to Reevas body,... heavy, cant lift it,

Trip3. finally gets going and is half way down the stairs when Standar and Clarice arrive.. followed on his heels by Baba..

Interlude in hallway here.. Oscar lays the body down on the tiles.. Standar argues about the ambulance coming, and rejects Oscar's suggestion that Standar does the driving of Reeva to hospital. Clarice gets instructions re plastic bags, from the pantry.. Oscar helps with this. Tea towels from the kitchen, scrabbling around laying these around Reeva , ( Clarice and Oscar ) ....

Still in the hallway.. . Oscar attempts some procedure on Reeva.. involves jamming his fingers down her throat. Reeva, ( apologies here) in a spasm clenches her teeth on Oscars fingers, he is now trapped on his knees in the hallway.. Stipp arrives.. Stipp immediately does a manouvre that removes Oscars hand from Reevas mouth . a sort of jaw dislocation movement. he gave the specific name of it, I cant remember it , Stipp carries on checking Reevas eyes for signs of life.

Trip 4. this one is STILL the mystery trip. no explanation for this one yet.. This is the one Stipp thought Oscar may be on his way to off himself with the missing gun.. he asks Standar is the gun secured?? Standar says yes. It wasn't, its still upstairs in the bathroom, loaded, ready to fire . Clarice faffing around talking talking, dabbing.

Trip 5. back downstairs from the Mystery Trip..

Interlude.. Oscar doing god knows what, Clarice ditto, Standar ditto, Baba still in shock, Jacob outside , Stipp still frantically working on Reeva s body.. Stipp decares her dead, .. he speaks with Standar outside, makes sure Ambo is called, and Stipp goes home..

Paramedics arrive... .. ( still in hallway) . they decide Reeva is deceased, ask Oscar for Reeva's ID.

Trip 6.. Oscar upstairs to bedroom to get Reevas handbag.. carefully not opening it and carefully stating this..

Trip 7. Oscar comes down with the handbag..


all corrections gratefully accepted!.

 

[G.bng]

I think I've sussed it. The one up bullet means not only do you have the magazine that holds a full round of 6? Bullets you have one ready loaded meaning you have 7 to go. So you would have to draw the slide to engage the magazine with its preloaded 6 rounds to go. This may account for the gap between the last four shots heard.

I am sure you have it wrong. You load a magazine in the pistol and once you have loaded the chamber by sliding, i.e. "one up", you are ready to fire no more than press the trigger. When you fire the automatic mechanism automatically loads the next in the chamber ready to fire. I have watched YT videos where to have 7 bullets ready what they do is once chambered the first of a 6 magazine they take the magazine out and replace the one loaded to the chamber and reload the mag. There is no gap between firing the first to the seventh. The only "gap" is if you don't carry the gun with "one up", i.e. one in the chamber, but most do because if for self defence you don't have to waste time chambering the first bullet.

 

[TorisMom003]

trip 1. downstairs to open the doors for the 'approaching ambulance'.. ( despite instructions to Standar, Standar tells Stipp that he hasn't rung one yet, he directs Baba to do it. ) Oscar is going to drive Reeva himself, because Net care told him to.

Trip 2. back upstairs to Reevas body,... heavy, cant lift it,

Trip3. finally gets going and is half way down the stairs when Standar and Clarice arrive.. followed on his heels by Baba..

Interlude in hallway here.. Oscar lays the body down on the tiles.. Standar argues about the ambulance coming, and rejects Oscar's suggestion that Standar does the driving of Reeva to hospital. Clarice gets instructions re plastic bags, from the pantry.. Oscar helps with this. Tea towels from the kitchen, scrabbling around laying these around Reeva , ( Clarice and Oscar ) ....

Still in the hallway.. . Oscar attempts some procedure on Reeva.. involves jamming his fingers down her throat. Reeva, ( apologies here) in a spasm clenches her teeth on Oscars fingers, he is now trapped on his knees in the hallway.. Stipp arrives.. Stipp immediately does a manouvre that removes Oscars hand from Reevas mouth . a sort of jaw dislocation movement. he gave the specific name of it, I cant remember it , Stipp carries on checking Reevas eyes for signs of life.

Trip 4. this one is STILL the mystery trip. no explanation for this one yet.. This is the one Stipp thought Oscar may be on his way to off himself with the missing gun.. he asks Standar is the gun secured?? Standar says yes. it wasn't, its till upstairs in te bathroom, loaded, ready to fire . Clarice faffing around talking talking, dabbing.

Trip 5. back downstairs from the Mystery Trip..

Interlude.. Oscar doing god knows what, Clarice ditto, Standar ditto, Baba still in shock, Jacob outside , Stipp still frantically working on Reeva s body.. Stipp decares her dead, .. he speaks with Standar outside, makes sure Ambo is called, and Stipp goes home..

Paramedics arrive... .. ( still in hallway) . they decide Reeva is deceased, ask Oscar for Reeva's ID.

Trip 6.. Oscar upstairs to bedroom to get Reevas handbag.. carefully not opening it and carefully stating this..

Trip 7. Oscar comes down with the handbag..


all corrections gratefully accepted!.

Trip number 4, according to Dr. Stipp occurred after he had declared Reeva had died.

Trip numbers 6 and 7 Ms. Stander was with OP.

 

[TorisMom003]

I am sure you have it wrong. You load a magazine in the pistol and once you have loaded the chamber by sliding, i.e. "one up", you are ready to fire no more than press the trigger. When you fire the automatic mechanism automatically loads the next in the chamber ready to fire. I have watched YT videos where to have 7 bullets ready what they do is once chambered the first of a 6 magazine they take the magazine out and replace the one loaded to the chamber and reload the mag. There is no gap between firing the first to the seventh. The only "gap" is if you don't carry the gun with "one up", i.e. one in the chamber, but most do because if for self defence you don't have to waste time chambering the first bullet.

I believe the "gap" that is being referred to is the gap in between the first shot that OP fired and the last three that OP fired. Remember, OP paused after he fired the first shot. So the "gap" would work like this bang..........bangbangbang.

 

[Trooper]

Trip number 4, according to Dr. Stipp occurred after he had declared Reeva had died.

Trip numbers 6 and 7 Ms. Stander was with OP.

brilliant, Torismom.. deeply appreciated.. I missed Clarice escorting Oscar on the handbag trip..

which leaves, the Mystery trip after Dr Stipp frees his fingers from her mouth, which he does all alone..


one trip , at a very odd moment, very odd indeed, upstairs alone and back downstairs.. Reevas mangled body in the hallway, Stipp looking for signs of any life, Clarice yapping and calling people on Oscars phone, stuffing towels and plastic bags around.. Standar standing around ( I think he was in as big a shock as Baba was ) . .Baba on the steps outside , Jacob ( the other security guard) also..

 

[G.bng]

It does sound that way. With fully automatic you only squeeze the trigger once and all the bullets fire one after the other.

There's no subtlety in the way guns operate I'm afraid.

You sure ST that's with a pistol. Isn't it a sub-machine gun that once you press the trigger if you keep it pressed it just keeps firing? From all the videos I watched and what I have read with an automatic pistol, or maybe it's called a semi-automatic pistol, you still have to press the trigger again and again if you want it to fire more than once, the only difference is that it automatically loads a bullet in the chamber after each shot so there is no gap, and that's how you can do double-taps... but you still have to press the trigger for each shot.

 

[kaos]

Was it the police who rendered the weapon safe?

 

[TorisMom003]

Semi-automatic is what OP used that early morning. A fully automatic would be like a machine gun.

 

[TorisMom003]

Does anyone remember what day of the trial that the receipt was shown of the weapons, bullets, etc that OP intended to buy?

Never mind, found what I was looking for.

 

[wb180]

Semi-automatic is what OP used that early morning. A fully automatic would be like a machine gun.

To clarify, you can have a fully automatic pistol/Glock.

EDIT - ignore the above, i misread your post! You are right, OP used semi-automatic coz he need to press the trigger each time to shoot.

 

[K.T]

http://www.darrenkavinoky.com/oscar-pistoius-takes-the-stand/

Mandy McGlothlin OP-Ed for HNL

Here she's writing about Oscar Pistorius and domestic violence murder:

"Oscar exhibited anger management problems throughout his adult life and this time it came to a fatal, deadly conclusion. I believe that Oscar yelled at her (not to her) prior to her retreating to the bathroom and it was when she was in the bathroom and locked herself in&#8230;with the key (which is telling in and of itself), that Oscar yelled at her to get out of his house. If Oscar did speak those words, his neighbors would&#8217;ve heard those words. A controlling person (abuser) will say, &#8220;get out of my house&#8221;, &#8220;get out of my car&#8221;, etc. Abusers often speak in a self-centered tense&#8230;&#8221;my&#8221;, &#8220;me&#8221; &&#8221;mine&#8221;." - Mandy McGlothin​

I've almost at the point of given up thinking about the inconsistencies in Pistorius&#8217; version, there too many and am fairly sure Nel will find others. I&#8217;ve definitely not trying to show others how much his story doesn't add up and how he keeps contradicting himself and his &#8220;version&#8221; - that looks pointless.

And yes, Pistorius literally said the truth was his &#8220;version&#8221;.

Patterns of behavior are interesting and will probably shed more light on the sequence to how Pistorius killed Steenkamp. I agree with Lyra, Lisa, Soozie and others who say said his inadvertent statements (couldn&#8217;t use her phone because of the password, didn&#8217;t look through her bag, yelled &#8220;get out of my house&#8221 contain moments of what actually happened. I also want Nel to question Pistorius on why Steenkamp decided to turn around and drive to his house and so many other things about the Clarice, the ambulance actions.
Plus, what was the that long cal in their cars about and what was the stressful &#8220;hurdle&#8221; troubling Pistorius.

 

[Cherwell]

At the end of the day, Roux is just doing his job based on what OP tells me. He is just a voice for OP.

Problem is OP is a loose cannon and I am sure his body language is very telling. His voice and his answers are already very telling.

His choice of words is also very telling. Especially the constant use of the word "version".

 

[kaos]

Does anyone remember what day of the trial that the receipt was shown of the weapons, bullets, etc that OP intended to buy?

If he's the same guy who went through the licensing rules then it was 11th day.