Trial Discussion Thread #23 - 14.04.11, Day 21

[james83]

Has Nel never heard of the "fight or flight" response?

No? Obviously not.

No but he's heard of common sense.

 

[zwiebel]

O:...there wasn't enough light..there were street lights and houselights outside..

N: Why you saying there's no light and then saying there was light?

 

[Gryffindor]

No but he's heard of common sense.

Common sense varies.

Fight or flight is an innate response to each individual.

Nel cannot determine categorically what an individual person would or wouldn't do in such circumstances.

 

[james83]

Omg the door kicking what a screw up.

 

[AlexUK]

He assumed an intruder was in the toilet but wasn't there also a door to the shower right next to the toilet?

 

[zwiebel]

OP agrees he established noone was in the bthroom and he could see toilet door was closed.

N: And that's usually open?

O: long, long, pause

N: Or it wasn't?

O: I suppose it was usually closed

And something there about a door being kicked v slammed, that Nel caught? I missed that.

N: You just said that you never ever said someone kicked the door?

O: I made a mistake milady.

N: Your version never happened and you have to keep up with your version

O: I made a mistake. I'm sorry.

 

[james83]

O.p even worse than yesterday.

 

[zwiebel]

Whoo. Nel repeating abbout the kicking the door, and OP just saying I'm sorry, it's a mistake.

N: That's a problem. You want to comment on that?

O: No Milady.

 

[zwiebel]

I'm sure I can hear Roux whispering...

 

[jay-jay]

Oooh .. Nel picked him up on having said the toilet door had been either 'kicked or slammed' and then said he never said it .. I missed OP actually say it, only the denial of having said it. That is really telling if he said 'kick or slam' the door. Mixing up/getting confused with truth and lies again.

 

[MsY]

My parents were attacked by three intruders on their plot a few years ago. Regardless of the details I thank God that my dad somehow managed to get to his hidden gun under his bed while both his hands were tied, my mother being held down by one of them. And shoot one of them before they all three made a run for it.

To shoot at danger in this country becomes a matter of life and death.

Maybe that is why, despite everything else, I 'get' that night with them alone at his home. That he reacted in a fight mode and not in a flight mode. And it is so very very sad that she was the person behind that door. And not an intruder as he perceived it to be.

 

[mister happy]

Nel's questioning sounds like a police interrogation.

 

[Murphys_Law]

Omg the door kicking what a screw up.

Indeed, and that is on top of "I could see clearly down the passageway"

 

[Lyra500]

Common sense varies.

Fight or flight is an innate response to each individual.

Nel cannot determine categorically what an individual person would or wouldn't do in such circumstances.

Well in that case wouldn't the whole foundation of the culpable homicide judgement be null and void since it is based on whether the defendant acted in the way a reasonable person would in the same circumstances?

Surely part of Nel's job is to make the case that OP did not act in the way a reasonable person would? How can he do this without challenging OP about his actions and questioning them?

 

[zwiebel]

Nel now going through how burglars might have got thru window with ladder. Asks why they'd have come in and gone into toilet.

OP asks Nel to rephrase, asks him to clarify what he's asking (mentions the word reasonable specifically).

 

[Freya1977]

Last time he testified he said when he was getting and going through the passageway he said he was touching the floor at times too. I thought it odd, that he would need to be say he was touching the floor for balance or whatever reason. He hasn't repeated line yet.

I thought he said he was touching the wall.....

 

[steveml]

Oscar's right. The State have changed their case and proposals within it numerous times. Is the State actually tailoring its case as per evidence, witnesses and statements???

It had to be changed once it was agreed that Hilton Botha was so wide of the mark, that's why the state's proposal doesn't fit the witnesses timelines.

Whether OP's lying or not, it can't be disputed that his version is able to fit exactly to the witnesses timelines.
We also need to bear in mind that OP had absolutely no knowledge of what the witnesses would say at the time of his statement.
It may not be the truth, but if it's not he's got a great deal of luck on his side.

 

[zwiebel]

O: Considering has a time component which I didn't have the luxury of

O:..when I was standing in the bathroom shouting...there was time for me to consider..

????

O: I never said that Milady (when inevitably, N picks him up on that).

 

[sorrell skye]

I love Mr. Nel!!!

He's pointing out each and every absurdity of OP's version that we've been discussing here for the past year.

I especially like how Nel asked why a burglar would climb through his bathroom window and go into the toilet & close the door.

OP's version has never been believable (to me & many others) and Nel is exposing it for the ridiculous fabrication that it is.

 

[Gryffindor]

Well in that case wouldn't the whole foundation of the culpable homicide judgement be null and void since it is based on whether the defendant acted in the way a reasonable person would in the same circumstances?

Surely part of Nel's job is to make the case that OP did not act in the way a reasonable person would? How can he do this without challenging OP about his actions and questioning them?

He would do that more successfully without putting forth assumptions of his OWN belief.