Trial Discussion Thread #23 - 14.04.11, Day 21

[Cher352]

Have a good weekend everyone, I am off to bed.

 

[zwiebel]

Was the toilet door opening noise completely new?

 

[Canadian4]

Thanks to everyone for posting. I can finally go to bed.

 

[MeeBee]

Nel is wrong. OP said on direct that he heard a noise that he thought was someone coming out of toilet. This is not something he's never said before and I could see the defense getting all worked up looking for the document. Perhaps Nel wanted the adjournment before they could object.

 

[MeeBee]

Was the toilet door opening noise completely new?

No...

 

[shane13]

Was the toilet door opening noise completely new?

Yes.
Nel said so, and I concurred.

Of course, I only perceive that I am right.

ETA: We will need to check where he was in his statements to compare where he was in Nel's last questions.

Why would Nel not want to continue as he seems to have really rattled OP? Or is it just a Friday thing?

 

[Murphys_Law]

N: You;re standing in the bthrm, shouting and screaming at Reeva, what happened then?

Now OP is saying a noise 'like wood moving, like door opening'

N: That's the first time...that's not in the record.

O: I didn't say I heard the door opening. I said I thought I heard the door opening.

OP does not "correct" Nel, to say that he was screaming at the intruders. Why?...because he WAS screaming at Reeva.

 

[kaos]

The Sky SA expert reckons Nel has proved it was murder by OP's admission that he moved forward into what he knew would be a confrontation rather than retreating as that then turned OP into the aggressor.

 

[jassy writer]

Perhaps all those who think OP is "innocent" of knowing it was Reeva would consider the following:

Reeva's bladder was just about empty when she died.

By his own statement, OP spoke to her just before getting up and moving the fans.

He then heard a noise - the window opening. (heard despite the fans).

Grabbed his gun - no time to think - whispered to Reeva, then hurtled down passage screaming, then stopped screaming, heard toilet door slamming, slowed down and went into bathroom quietly.

Heard a noise he perceived as somebody coming out of the toilet and plugged the door with four shots.

So at what time did she actually have a chance to pee?

If the door opened outwards, she could not have reached it to pull it shut if she'd been sitting down on the toilet.

She would not have had time to pee beforehand, and if she had done and had time to flush, he would have heard the flush and/or the cistern refilling.

If she had peed, then stood up and pulled up her shorts, but not flushed, there would have been evidence in the toilet (toilet paper).

But if he heard the window sliding open (which presumably was Reeva in his version), there would not have been time for her to pee AT ALL.

So, if her bladder was empty, why would she have got up in the night and gone to the toilet at all?

Just looking logically at all the above, it makes complete sense that his version is a total and utter fabrication.

 

[BritsKate]

Was the toilet door opening noise completely new?

This is from the 8th:

The toilet door slammed, reconfirming his belief there was a person or people in the bathroom, the athlete said.

"I heard a noise from inside the toilet, what I perceived to be someone coming out of the toilet," he said tearfully. At that point, he shot at the door.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-26939443

 

[Carol70]

My parents were attacked by three intruders on their plot a few years ago. Regardless of the details I thank God that my dad somehow managed to get to his hidden gun under his bed while both his hands were tied, my mother being held down by one of them. And shoot one of them before they all three made a run for it.

To shoot at danger in this country becomes a matter of life and death.

Maybe that is why, despite everything else, I 'get' that night with them alone at his home. That he reacted in a fight mode and not in a flight mode. And it is so very very sad that she was the person behind that door. And not an intruder as he perceived it to be.

and that's exactly why I get it too, and we hear these tragic stories over and over again.

This also pissed me off:

OP: Every moment was a split decision. Someone could have attacked me with a gun or choked me.

Nel: Nobody would do that, that's a lie.

Why would nobody do that?? Shame on you Mr Nel, that's almost denying people have their homes invaded and are robbed and murdered on a daily basis in this country.

 

[04009margaret]

Legal expert saying on Oscar radio, that when you do your legal training your taught how to pick up on the lies. It is drilled into them that the lie will always be told exactly the same way, verbiage. Oscar is saying the same thing over & over again using the exact same language. This is what we are trained to pick up on & Harry Nel is honing in on it.

 

[Apollo]

I'm thinking his dog is one lucky pooch.

 

[james83]

Laughably guilty.

 

[Rumpole]

There are an awful lot of things that "don't make sense" to Nel?

I wonder if he needs to get more sleep?

I know Judge Juddy uses the test "If it doesn't make sense it's not true"

But she only has a 10 minute segment in which to decide some minor traffic or stray dog beef.

I really think Nel needs to do a bit more to prove a murder charge beyond reasonable doubt :doh:

 

[shane13]

This is from the 8th:

The toilet door slammed, reconfirming his belief there was a person or people in the bathroom, the athlete said.

"I heard a noise from inside the toilet, what I perceived to be someone coming out of the toilet," he said tearfully. At that point, he shot at the door.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-26939443

Well that is not the same as definitively saying that he heard the door opening.

 

[zwiebel]

I think this is the first time I've heard it stated clearly that the state's case is, Reeva was standing up, facing the bathroom door and talking to Oscar when he shot her?

 

[Peliman]

Hey stevemi

I was reading yesterdays post in the old thread and realized the discussion about glock and automatic went full blown. I read for a little bit yesterday and saw thought the safety issue was resolved and went back to watching on tv.

Please know I didn't mean by my response to a member was not intended to go full blown. Thanks for picking up my slack.

 

[Gryffindor]

OP does not "correct" Nel, to say that he was screaming at the intruders. Why?...because he WAS screaming at Reeva.

He did follow it up by saying he was screaming at Reeva to call the police.

 

[BritsKate]

and that's exactly why I get it too, and we hear these tragic stories over and over again.

This also pissed me off:

Why would nobody do that?? Shame on you Mr Nel, that's almost denying people have their homes invaded and are robbed and murdered on a daily basis in this country.

I'll admit even I cringed at that and I believe Oscar's guilty of intentional murder. I thought midway through he seemed to realise what he was saying but it was too late to retract or change tactic.

In reality he's probably prosecuted many of those cases.