Trial Discussion Thread #23 - 14.04.11, Day 21

[Viper]

Well, he now says he yelled at Reeva to 'call the police and security'.

LOL!!! :floorlaugh: For Mr. Nel, OP really is the gift that keeps giving!

My gosh, OP cannot be listening to and following his attorney's instructions, I cannot blame Mr. Roux for this. If he has a story all he has to do is stick to that story; but he is constantly editing his story to try to make it more believable. It's not working!!! And the judge, oh my, she is taking all of this down...

 

[asanque]

The mess on the floor can work both for and against in that situation.
If she knew the floor was crowded on one side, all the more reason she would get out of bed on the other side.

She still would have needed to get her phone which was on the right side of the bed (right next to Oscar).

 

[shane13]

So I just read that OP is proud of himself for not shooting the man that kicked his butt, giving OP a black eye and a laceration that required stitches. Good for OP for using restraint the night of that incident. But somehow his logic and reasoning escapes me because he went commando when he perceived Mr. Armed Intruder was in his toilet closet??? :what:

Yes, but perhaps the reason is clear from OP's narrative?

He doesn't know who did it--implying he didn't see him.
Maybe he didn't shoot because he got jumped and knocked out or such?

 

[Viper]

Seems like the magazine rack was to the left of the toilet if RS fell onto it after the hip shot. The ballistic "rods" seem to show the first shot angled toward that front left corner too. RS probably pushed back as far as she could into that corner, which wasn't very far with the rack there, while OP was screaming at her in the bathroom.

I caught the testimony where OP talked about "a wood sound," and he quickly added (fabricated) that the WC door was fitted to the door frame badly so it rubbed on the frame making a wood sound. Implying that the door was opening.

 

[jay-jay]

I caught the testimony where OP talked about "a wood sound," and he quickly added (fabricated) that the WC door was fitted to the door frame badly so it rubbed on the frame making a wood sound. Implying that the door was opening.

He sure does have some badly fitting doors, doesn't he .. what with the toilet door and that bedroom door which was so swollen from the humidity that he had to barge his way through it to open it when he went back upstairs (having already gone through it previously to go downstairs!)

 

[shane13]

Anyone believe OP would leave his expensive car at a crowded restaurant after just being followed and shot at, and not remember today how he got his car back? No fear that it would likely be stolen? It's clear again today that his contempt for SA police isn't a new thing.

He hired "Immaculate Car Return, Co".--a mid-sized company in Pretoria.

"No questions asked, no questions answered..."
Fee commensurate with level of trial charges...
Memory removal extra... [j/k]

 

[crasshopper]

OP is trying desperately to convince the judge and public, that we non paranoid non gun toters, don't understand what happens to you when you go into...what does he call it ... oh yes "commando mode" and that a sliding window will trigger this.

 

[Carol70]

S. Africa sounds like a nightmare place to live. It's not safe even inside a gated community, you have to bribe the cops, the cops will help themselves to what they want if you allow them in your house, you must do everything possible to preserve the life of an intruder bent on your destruction, you have to account for every bullet and the placement within your house of every gun and magazine. Time for every sane person to move out, if you ask me.

Lol Molly, SA is a beautiful place to live..it's the very reason why we haven't followed a lot of our fellow countrymen and left for "greener" shores. All who stay have hope that things will get better and we appreciate and make do with all we have. A lot of South Africans are not ready to thrown in the towel after all this county has been through.

 

[turaj]

It is interesting to listen to OP who is so used to his well heeled "barristers" doing damage control for him and never having to answer to anyone...now in the "box" with nowhere to go and having to face the music. You can hear disbelief in his voice. And if he indeed had a true story to tell you would expect he would want the whole world to SEE and hear him...but sadly that is not the case.

Does Roux go ahead trying to rehab his client? If so that will take weeks and frankly cannot be done. And then can Nell go again?

 

[Viper]

Do you think the "wood moving" noise will be the magazine rack, according to DT? It seems like they have mentioned that magazine rack and its position so many times.

I just read this:

Quote:

"I heard wood moving. I think I heard the door opening," Pistorius said, keeping his eyes fixed on Judge Thokozile Masipa.

"Not once did you say 'I heard a door opening'... it's not in the [court] record. Why now?" Nel asked.


LOL, why does OP not understand that he cannot keep embellishing his story? He must surely know that Mr. Nel is going to seize on it. Shaking my head...

http://m.news24.com/news24/SouthAfr...-questions-Oscars-toilet-noise-claim-20140411

 

[MsY]

Originally Posted by MsY
My parents were attacked by three intruders on their plot a few years ago. Regardless of the details I thank God that my dad somehow managed to get to his hidden gun under his bed while both his hands were tied, my mother being held down by one of them. And shoot one of them before they all three made a run for it.

To shoot at danger in this country becomes a matter of life and death.

Maybe that is why, despite everything else, I 'get' that night with them alone at his home. That he reacted in a fight mode and not in a flight mode. And it is so very very sad that she was the person behind that door. And not an intruder as he perceived it to be.

BBM With respect, would it have been okay then if it had been an intruder and he/she had been shot dead?

If it was me shooting an intruder to protect my loved ones I will go to prison with a clear conscious that I did what I needed to do to protect them. At all costs.

 

[Gryffindor]

Admittedly, when Nel asked Oscar if Reeva screamed and he replied no, I immediately thought he'd say, "I couldn't tell as my ears were ringing" but he didn't.

He said no.

Oops. I'm doubtful.

 

[Carol70]

Jays us, don't know what this means and what the implications are, if anything.

Johannesburg - The SA Human Rights Commission (SAHRC) has been asked to probe the manner in which State prosecutor Gerrie Nel conducted his cross-examination of murder accused Oscar Pistorius.

"We have received an e-mail with an intention to lodge a complaint over the utterances made in court," SAHRC spokesperson Isaac Mangena said on Friday.

"We have acknowledged and asked the complainant to lodge a formal complaint by filling out a form. We will then assess the complaint as per our complaints handling procedure to [decide] whether it is something for the commission to investigate or not," said Mangena.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/O...ed-to-probe-Oscars-cross-examination-20140411

 

[Britlaws]

The affidavit is meant to include what are perceived to be facts of the case, it''s not meant to be a detailed statement.
OP's has far more detail than many.

Why would you present more case information than required to someone as sharp as Nel, even if you are telling the truth?
It's the equivalent of giving the PT some rope to hang you with.
We've already seen how something as minutiae as a thin black cable under a speaker can be distorted by the PT.

Yes but, with respect, OP knew the timeline of events, the crime scene, number of 'bangs', the injuries, the bullet holes, the screaming.... he knew everything that happened! The prosecution had to take months to collect evidence and interview witnesses to get anywhere near knowing what really happened. All OP had to do was think up a reasonably plausible explanation and fit it with the circumstances.... make the room pitch black so he couldn't see her, introduce the noisy fans so he couldn't hear her, say he screamed like a girl etc etc. So, of course he can say his basic version hasn't changed. Then all he has to do is add detail as the prosecution evidence appears and builds his fear/experience of crime to make his self defence claim.

What he couldn't get away from though, is that fact that he was the gunman. I really believe that if he'd had the chance, RS would have been dumped somewhere remote in the transvaal

 

[soozieqtips]

From Andrew Harding of the BBC:

This week has reminded me, once again, of the dangers of taking anything for granted in this trial. And there is still a long way to go. And yet I would conclude that, overall, these past few days have been close to a disaster for Mr Pistorius - and one that largely seems to have been of his own making.

Re: one of the gun charges:

Another was the gunshot under the restaurant table in Johannesburg. This was even worse.

Instead of admitting he had fired it by mistake, Mr Pistorius tried to suggest that the gun's trigger had somehow been pulled independently - that he had not been directly responsible for the action.

Mr Nel scoffed at the "miracle" shot, and at the athlete's reluctance to accept blame.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-26989222

 

[AlexUK]

He sure does have some badly fitting doors, doesn't he .. what with the toilet door and that bedroom door which was so swollen from the humidity that he had to barge his way through it to open it when he went back upstairs (having already gone through it previously to go downstairs!)

The whole house seems a bit rubbish actually, air con not working/bathroom light broken/broken window/paint falling off/jacuzzi not working....as well as the doors. Dunno who the builder was but not a good recommendation.....!

 

[soozieqtips]

Jays us, don't know what this means and what the implications are, if anything.


http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/O...ed-to-probe-Oscars-cross-examination-20140411

I doubt that complaint will go anywhere. The Judge hasn't needed to intervene too much over the past week.

 

[crasshopper]

If it was me shooting an intruder to protect my loved ones I will go to prison with a clear conscious that I did what I needed to do to protect them. At all costs.

Even at the cost of shooting them?!

Happens more often than you would think...

 

[G.bng]

But is their premise "innocent till proven guilty" ?

Thanks

No, the prosecution's premise cannot possibly be the presumption of innocence or they wouldn't be able to prosecute anyone. The prosecution must believe the accused is guilty and that they reasonably have enough evidence to prove it. Obviously they have failures, in the UK failed prosecutions are around 14%, but in OP's case I really cannot see OP getting anything less than culpable homicide so hardly a prosecution failure.

 

[Viper]

The most important thing I took from today was Nel taking OP through his alleged crime victim history and finding no verifiable evidence exists that any occurred. OP supposedly has such contempt for SA police that he never reported any crimes against himself/his stuff, with the exception of his stolen watches.

BIB. But not for lack of trying! :smile:

After he injured that girl at his home and spent the night in jail, he spoke about it in an interview. He said he was getting ready to drive to the police station to report her criminal actions when the police arrived to arrest him, so he said he didn't have the chance to file his complaint.

And there was another one too where someone filed a complaint against OP for IIRC threatening to physically hurt him; the HAWKS were involved. OP in that case filed a counter claim against the man for the same threats.

So OP will use the police against his victims, or he would like to if they will go along with his wishes.