Trial Discussion Thread #23 - 14.04.11, Day 21

[jay-jay]

I think there was an argument... possibly started by OP going off on one at Reeva for leaving the balcony doors open and HIM having to go and close them and bring the fans in. My version is his me lady... she told him to go eff himself and then knowing that he was in a rage she ran into the bathroom and then into toilet and locked the door. He was trying to get the bathroom door open using his weight but couldn't so got the cricket bat Not really sure what happened from there but wait up I'll be back :twocents:

Agree with BBM .. but .. this is the problem with OP's version is that parts of it are now being taken as read/the truth when actually we only have OP's word for it. We only have OP's word for the 'fact' he asked Reeva to close the balcony doors, etc .. so we can't possibly know if they caused an argument or not .. and clearly, if he never asked her in the first place then they couldn't have been the source of any disagreement!

It's like the thing about the door being locked .. from the inside. That has been taken as truth almost from day one, but in reality, we only have OP's word for the 'fact' it was locked on the inside by Reeva whereas in reality it could've well have been locked by him from the outside .. we just don't know. But, the thing is is that so many people have made the point "why would Reeva lock herself in the toilet" when actually, we only have OP's word for the door having been locked from the inside .. we don't actually know for a fact that it was.

 

[katydid23]

I would say his job is to base it on facts not his personal perceptions.

The law is based upon what a 'reasonable person' would do. So it is important that Nel discuss what those reasonable responses would be. It is FACT that a person shooting a deadly weapon should first verify the whereabouts of his roommates, before shooting blindly through a door. And that is a reasonable FACT.

 

[nastasya]

Agree with BBM .. but .. this is the problem with OP's version is that parts of it are now being taken as read/the truth when actually we only have OP's word for it. We only have OP's word for the 'fact' he asked Reeva to close the balcony doors, etc .. so we can't possibly know if they caused an argument or not .. and clearly, if he never asked her in the first place then they couldn't have been the source of any disagreement!

It's like the thing about the door being locked .. from the inside. That has been taken as truth almost from day one, but in reality, we only have OP's word for the 'fact' it was locked on the inside by Reeva whereas in reality it could've well have been locked by him from the outside .. we just don't know. But, the thing is is that so many people have made the point "why would Reeva lock herself in the toilet" when actually, we only have OP's word for the door having been locked from the inside .. we don't actually know for a fact that it was.

:goodpost:

 

[whiterum]

Reeva could quite easily have got out the other side.

If the bed was empty, I'd do that without anything being on the floor. If I was going to the loo I wouldn't get out towards the patio, and walk *all the way around the bed. I'd do the shortcut and get out the other side.

*'all the way'...lol...I know, it's not a long way, and it makes me sound sooo lazy. :doh:

Now that is where I differ from you Steve as I always get out of the side that I sleep on , that just comes natural to me and IMO as regards distance it's as broad as it's long.

 

[jay-jay]

I think Roux really failed his client, writing all that detail down in bail and other pleadings that the Prosecutor could then get his hands on.

I'm not sure he has failed his client .. I guess there is only so much that you can do if someone is lying, because the truth will out eventually. The defence will only ever really work effectively if the person they are representing is actually innocent.

 

[Emz73]

Me too and everyone else I know says the same. Protect first, ask questions later. I sleep with a machete next to my bed, I would not hesitate to use it and hopefully, never have to.

The scariest thing that's ever happened to me in 5 years, in regards to my house, is the other Saturday the hamster escaped from its cage....

:chicken:

 

[fox1lady]

That's why I don't understand Nel or anybody saying it's unreasonable that an intruder would do this or that. Obviously, OP is not going to think in that moment of high panic and stress, "this is unreasonable. Why would he run to my toilet?" That's what he thought the person did. And obviously he didn't have time to run through all these absurdities and impossibilities and stretches in his mind. He had zeroed on an intruder, quite evidenced by his statement, "I never took my eyes off the passageway." That's called tunnel vision.

Do you not do this when watching CSI or Law and Order etc? I'm always doing it saying things like "yeah right, as if that would happen or as if he'd do this or that" it is quite usual to do so when you're trying to crack a case... great stuff

 

[Carol70]

The scariest thing that's ever happened to me in 5 years, in regards to my house, is the other Saturday the hamster escaped from its cage....

:chicken:

Omw!..hahaha...lucky you!!
(And I really lol'ed so loud everyone in my lounge asked what so funny hehe)

 

[Emz73]

Is there part of the law in regards to shooting in self defence that you should warn the person you are going to shot? Like the police do? (or should do)

If his version is true, OP had plenty of time to ask who is there, tell them he had a gun. or is he saying he didn't want them to know where he was?

He really had all angles covered didn't he.

 

[james83]

Remember aswell from today Oscar deactivates his alarm before going downstairs, that's right, Reeva is laying there slowly dying on the bathroom floor yet Oscar on his way down from the bedroom to open his front door so he can then carry her down has a clear enough head to remember to deactivate his alarm, does that ring true?.

 

[katydid23]

Why??

Because if he had heard the door lock, then he would know there was a barrier between him and whomever was inside the toilet. And he also might have called out and said "who is in the there? " Perhaps he would have even taken a second to wonder where Reeva was?

 

[Viper]

I just watched the testimony where Nel was asking OP whether or not he heard Reeva scream after the first shot, OP said she didn't scream. Then they went further and OP said his ears were ringing so he could not hear her screaming. And then Nel pounced, saying,"Exactly! You could not hear her screaming!"

This is key because whether or not OP heard her screaming that does not mean that she was not. And the witnesses that heard her screaming during the shooting and then heard her screams go silent after the shooting stopped are right in what they heard.

Love love love Mr. Nel!

 

[shane13]

Let There Be Light
© Shane13


In the beginning, there was light in the bedroom, as Oscar and Reeva argued for an hour.

Then Oscar said, ”Let there be Pitch Dark” and all was dark in his affidavit-world.
So Darkness had descended upon his bedroom.

But then his allibi-world needed some light and Oscar said, “Let there be LED—Blue.” And blue light descended upon his bedroom. So that Oscar could see Reeva allegedly in bed for a moment in time [like tears in the rain].

But then Oscar needed the Pitch Dark again, so that he could not see that Reeva was not in bed. So Oscar now said, ”Let there be Blue Denim Jeans” to bring forth Pitch Dark once again, in the bedroom. And so the blue light vanished, and there was pitch dark descended once again upon the bedroom. And Oscar and Roux said all was good.

And because Oscar next needed noise and an excuse to chase after Reeva into the bathroom where she now hid for her dear life, Oscar said, ”Let there be noise of opening a window in the bathroom. And lo and behold, a miracle occurred, and the bathroom window opened upon itself!

And Oscar then said all was good—I mean bad. And then Oscar descended upon the alleged intruders. And with great [self-]righteousness, Oscar slayed the alleged intruder trapped behind the loo door.

And as he soon cradled his actual victim, poor Reeva, in his arms, Baba called from on high, and asked Oscar, what was going on at his home, as people heard gunshots,
and Oscar then said, ”Everything is Fine.”

And later there was Nel to bring back the light, we all hope…
And if not, let the People in their wisdom bring light to this, for Reeva deserves the light of truth and justice.

Let there be light.

 

[ShadyLady]

I am curious about public opinion on OP and if is guilty in SA. Or is his popularity still high?

 

[katydid23]

Hmmm... another strange fact:

I'm listening to the back and forth testimony about the alarm.

It seems to me if he wanted immediate help that night, he would have opened the bedroom door and run out and tripped the alarm on purpose. That would insure immediate help coming.

So why would he turn off the alarm before he left the bedroom? That just delays help coming.

OMG! You are right. WHY did he turn off the alarm?????????????????????

Isn't the entire purpose of the alarm to bring help?

 

[jacalyn]

I missed the witness testimony. Did witnesses say the part of the bathroom where the tub was had a light on?

Are you thinking Reeva did not take her phone into the bathroom? What was her last use of it?

Reeva either was hiding there from him or just using the bathroom. Is there a third possibility?

If she was hiding from him, why stand in front of the door? Worst place to stand if she knew he had a gun.

Just heard inserts of this trial and him whaling because he knows his life is going to be 100% different and him using a pity party to get off.

But I believe there was a major fight with the hot head, her escape route to get away from him until he settles down was only into the bathroom. She locked the door to feel safe, putting some separation between them until he cools down. Who would of thought someone would be so stupid to start shooting through it? For all we know she might of been talking to him threw it, until she was gunned down. Think there were 4 shots, why not call 911 and stand there with a gun if a made up intruder came out.

Saw someone posted, why not make sure the person beside them was not there first, and IF not there come to the conclusion, person must of went to the bathroom. AGREE This is too stupid you'd think he was 2 year old, coming up with a ludicrous story like this one.

Sad that he lost two legs, but this beautiful, smart, young woman lost a heck of a lot more.

 

[nastasya]

Stop and think.

Reeva was just in the bedroom with Oscar

She knows the bedroom door is locked and extra secured with the cricket bat

She saw Oscar playing with the fans when she got up

She KNOWS there is no intruder in the bedroom

She goes is in the bathroom and KNOWS there is no intruder in the bathroom

If Oscar starts screaming 5 seconds later that there's an intruder...

Where the flipping h#ll did the intruder come from?? Was he hiding in their curtains for hours waiting for this one exact precise moment.

She did NOT think there was an intruder and kept silent while Oscar was screaming at her 3 meters away. IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE!!!!

Stop and think.

OP never said he screamed "there's an intruder."

He said he yelled "get out of my house."

 

[lisasalinger]

Well, but, LED or no, that room would have been pitch black when he closed the curtains. The other thing that happens is it takes several minutes for your eyes to adjust. I do believe he could have walked right past Reeva and not seen her. Or not seen she wasn't in the bed. That is very possible. Try it in your own bedroom if you can.

I don't see where it was proven the fans were never outside. The big fan had one leg outside, and then he brought it in and put it on the corner of the bed. I don't see where that was ever challenged except by the police picture which is still suspect.

OSCAR was never outside. That it my point. HE was always inside that room with Reeva.

His original story was that HE was outside and that's when Reeva slipped in to the bathroom. His story changed. The defense is using semantics to explain this with the whole "one leg" business.

Oscar never left that room, no reason for his eyes to adjust.

 

[Carol70]

The law is based upon what a 'reasonable person' would do. So it is important that Nel discuss what those reasonable responses would be. It is FACT that a person shooting a deadly weapon should first verify the whereabouts of his roommates, before shooting blindly through a door. And that is a reasonable FACT.

I don't dispute and I hope that OP is looking at, at least a culpable homicide conviction...and that is exactly what Nel has managed to prove so far. OP has admitted and doesn't deny that he is responsible for the death of Reeva. In my mind, OP has already stated that he wasn't acting in a reasonable capacity hence the reason he didn't initially wait for a response from Reeva, and went blindly shooting into a confined space.

I know I keep going on and on about this but I just can't see how anyone can't see that it's a plausible scenario. Slaan my Dood.

 

[Viper]

Oscar must the hold the record for not making eye contact, for the longest time and in most positions, with the largest item in the bedroom the bed. Brings in fans, back to the bed. Turns to pick up jeans, back to the bed. Hears noise from down the passage and diverts his sight away from the bed, goes along side of the bed backwards so he can keep an eye on the passage, picks up his gun from under the bead and whispers (oops) softly tells Reeva to get low and call the police without looking at her.

I believe his guilty based on his own words and actions, his experts can't prove what he was thinking or disprove he fired the shots, to me they are a complete waste of time. And any neighbor witnesses can't disprove what the five other witnesses heard.