Trial Discussion Thread #25 - 14.04.14, Day 22

[kaos]

Has it been determined,as fact, the denim on the floor were Reevas, other than Oscars version that they are? I may be wrong. But they look suspiciously like men's and as Oscar liked to store his legs in the trousers, if he was in a super hurry trying to get his legs on and pulled them through, his socks would have pulled off and reason for him to add he had to put his socks on as well. This fits with him having no legs in his acts of intimidation and gun fire, then trot off to get his legs phones etc. He also had little blood on the base of his socks in photos yet we have been told they had been taken in the garage?

As we also still have no explanation to 'other' pants. Not neatly out the window.

I don't think the jeans were his as the PT would definitely have picked up on that by now. I suspect Reeva's family faces when they saw them was because they were actually outside in.

 

[shane13]

My prediction is that at some point today, Nels *will* ask:
'Mr. Pistorius, did you hear a toilet flush?'

This is a key question.

If he says 'no' because of the fans.

Nels will say then how come you could hear the window slide open.

He won't won't be able to answer with anything else.

Edit: He will also establish that it would be impossible on OP's version of events for Reeva to have gone to the toilet in the timeframe provided.

He may also raise the issue of washing hands.

The empty bladder and toilet is a key issue.

Second Edit: Although if I was Nels, I would have asked yesterday. "Mr. Pistorius, if you were truly looking for Reeva after you 'shot the intruder', why didn't you turn on the lights first?' ; and

"Mr Pistorius, if you were really frightened about the intruder, why wouldn't you have tried to open the toilet door after the shots?" (establishing the locked door earlier)

Third Edit: I would have also asked earlier "Where does Reeva normally keep her mobile"?

Answer: Most likely, I don't know but next to her.

That way he could have established movement on the right hand side of the bed that he should have noticed.

RE Empty bladder at autopsy.

Why does no one bring up possibiily of the shock in last minutes of her liife, and bladder emptying involuntarilly?
If clothes not immediately checked there would later be evaporation.
Was this brought up?

 

[Panda]

There is no evidence that she did.

Okay, thanks. I thought I read somewhere that Saayman said she emptied it after death, which was quite common, and that it was murky. Mind you, I think that was from a paper article. So ... :silenced:

 

[shane13]

OT

Just saw new movie, Zulu (2013). [Not the older historical movie]
This one is a crime thriller set in current SA

Forrest Whitaker plays a SAPS Capt.
Starts off with findng body of pretty young blonde woman.

Was pretty good, but not great.

 

[mister happy]

The trial will resume in another hour, correct? I'm gonna get some coffee & donuts. Anybody want some too?

 

[shane13]

I've been trying to find an aerial photo which shows OP's house and also points out which witnesses house is which. Can anyone direct me to one?

If you go to the top of your page, and click on a level before this one, says ["oscar pistorius"]
Then find the 'sticky' that says photos or such.
Almost certainly a pic of what you want will be in there.

 

[asanque]

Okay, thanks. I thought I read somewhere that Saayman said she emptied it after death, which was quite common, and that it was murky. Mind you, I think that was from a paper article. So ... :silenced:

I've had a look around for the transcript but couldn't find it on a quick look around.

This is from juror13
http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/03/13/oscar-pistorius-trial-day-7/

['Another item that was hotly discussed prior to trial is whether or not Reeva had urine in her bladder when examined. The defense theory is that if the bladder is empty, she was just using the bathroom to relieve herself that night.

There was a small amount of urine found in her bladder.
It was murky, which is a result of cells becoming loose from the bladder.

Even if Reeva had urinated an hour before her death, her bladder could still have been empty. Many factors contribute to this including how well hydrated the person was.']

Edit: This might have been a trap by Nels, as OP's original version was he heard a noise in the bathroom. He later changed it to a window opening. If it was just a noise, it could have been toilet flushing.

 

[Freya1977]

If you go to the top of your page, and click on a level before this one, says ["oscar pistorius"]
Then find the 'sticky' that says photos or such.
Almost certainly a pic of what you want will be in there.

Thanks - I did look in there and there were a couple but I couldn't see one which showed all the different houses just one here and there. I shall take another look

 

[Freya1977]

The trial will resume in another hour, correct? I'm gonna get some coffee & donuts. Anybody want some too?

Yes please! Sitting on the bus and wishing it would hurry up so I'm home in time!

 

[weeeva]

He probably spent about 10 minutes on whispers vs low tones.

This in a cross-examination spanning multiple days.

I don't think you can simply brush off a non-response and non-movement by Reeva as simply 'Oscar' concentrating elsewhere.

It just doesn't make reasonable sense.

I'd also like to see one OP supporter come up with a working theory on the 'empty bladder'.

My bold lettering.
Does a terrifying situation, require reasonable sense?

 

[shane13]

Yes please! Sitting on the bus and wishing it would hurry up so I'm home in time!

When the bus stops, take a quick look under for Roux, Henke P, Darren Fresco and a cast of others.

 

[shane13]

Thanks - I did look in there and there were a couple but I couldn't see one which showed all the different houses just one here and there. I shall take another look

Did you try Google. And when your very specific search comes up, hit "Image' on top?
Did you try that?

 

[Freya1977]

When the bus stops, take a quick look under for Roux, Henke P, Darren Fresco and a cast of others.

Lol! Haha

 

[Freya1977]

Did you try Google. And when your very specific search comes up, hit "Image' on top?
Did you try that?

Yeh I did, with a few different search terms.

 

[asanque]

My bold lettering.
Does a terrifying situation, require reasonable sense?

Yes and no, this is just one element of OP's testimony that is undergoing the 'reasonability' test.

However, depending on his actual defence (he keeps changing), the rule of thumb could be 'objective' (reasonable person) or 'subjective' (his own perspective).

 

[mister happy]

Yes please! Sitting on the bus and wishing it would hurry up so I'm home in time!

Fresh coffee & donuts coming up. A trial watchers best friend.

 

[james83]

Just saw a ballistics expert being interviewed by sky news in the court who said in his opinion those bullets were very unlikely to be fired in panic due to there close proximity to each other, and in his opinion look aimed and directed.

 

[weeeva]

He probably spent about 10 minutes on whispers vs low tones.

This in a cross-examination spanning multiple days.

I don't think you can simply brush off a non-response and non-movement by Reeva as simply 'Oscar' concentrating elsewhere.

It just doesn't make reasonable sense.

I'd also like to see one OP supporter come up with a working theory on the 'empty bladder'.

Firstly, can I make it clear that I am not an OP supporter.
I can't come up with a theory for the empty bladder. I am still trying to get round it. Perhaps the defence will come up with something.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I think the attack started in the bedroom and she ran to the bathroom and locked herself in to keep him away. He heard her open the window in the bathroom as she screamed for help and he had to shut her up.

I was very interested in what Nel said today about the gunshots. How OP heard the first shot knock her down into the magazine rack and he adjusted the shots directly towards the rack. Great visual during testimony. The early banging noise was likely OP kicking the door and that metal cover that was bent.

Could it be the window in the toilet and he had no access, so he freaked out more?

 

[shane13]

Yeh I did, with a few different search terms.

It's actually not the best with yielding pics of what you specifically ask for, right?

Of course sometimes what you want is in videos.
You might find what you want in the docs that came out a year ago on major networks.