Trial Discussion Thread #26 - 14.04.15, Day 23

[Carmelita]

The assessor questions were interesting. What do y'all make of those?

Perhaps trying to assess whether or not Reeva could have gone downstairs for a midnight snack without disturbing Oscar?

 

[molly333]

Things weren't all rosy for him -- seemed he got some bad news at his apptmt with his advisors on the 13th. Not saying that was the reason for the shooting. But do think he was stressed out. I don't think we'll ever have an answer to the question of "why"?

JMO

Problem is--prosecutor didn't give us any evidence of what the bad news might be, he didn't give us any evidence of what the fight might be about, or why they would even be fighting at all.

We are left with, "I love you."

 

[Cherwell]

If the assessors and the judge believe Mrs. Stipp's testimony that she saw light in the toilet room window, then either OP is lying about the light being broken or he broke part of the toilet door before he shot Reeva.

Yes, I haven't seen all of Mr Dixon's evidence, but I did catch that bit before I had to go out. It struck me as not helpful to the defence's case. Mrs Stipp had described how there seemed to be a dimmer light in the toilet window which corresponded to the demonstration of the door being ajar. Or broken?

 

[minor4th]

Anyone remember what day Mrs Stipp testified?

 

[sleuth-d-]

Sorry....I have to disagree here in that there was soooo much love...loving relationship, heck....they both were busy people..this was a lustful relationship.....loving in a sexual way...hey...that I'll agree with...maybe making love.....speeking of which.....I would have like Nel to have OP explain how it was that Reeva died "knowing she was loved".

i was intrigued by the 'knowing she was loved' phrase too.

knowing she was loved - sort of generalises it, and removes him from the whole thing.

why didn't he say, 'knowing i loved her' - which imo he found/finds difficult to say.

again, the narcissist only truly loves one person.

 

[minor4th]

They think he is a liar. Moo

Can you explain? What exactly were they trying to prove or disprove?

 

[shane13]

BBM

OP did not scream about intruders. OP claims he screamed at intruders. OP has never claimed that he told Reeva why to call police. So in OP's version, Reeva hears "Reeva phone police!" followed by "Get the F out of my house!". But OP doesn't tell her that there are intruders in the house.

As someone else pointed out (sorry can't remember who), what exactly was Reeva to tell police when she didn't know what she was told to call them?

Tell the police there is a killer in the house...

 

[molly333]

What kind of pressing appointment might drive him to kill his girlfriend? :waitasec:

well, he was quite driven. If she woke him up or kept him up and he had some kind of big race the next day or important interview--but there's nothing like that.

 

[minor4th]

I totally don't remember Mrs Stipp saying she saw the toilet window on, so I'm going to listen to her testimony again to find out the timing she gives for everything and what she says about the lights.

 

[TipDog]

Assessor

The light was broken in the toilet. She wouldn't have initially closed the door.

Supports him hearing the door slam shut when he did.

But then she would be standing there in the dark, listening at the door to Oscar flying off the handle screaming about intruders.

No, it only supports one of his versions. We have no idea when she slammed the door shut - which, IYWR, wasn't in his BH statement and only came out while under CE, along with the whole "hearing wood scrape" assertion. Both were questioned by Nel, and for good reason.

 

[Goforgold]

Doesn't the message in the Valentines card at least cast doubt on the idea that this was an abusive, non loving relationship? Reeva was a beautiful, sucessful, financially independent woman, she could have been involved with almost anyone she wanted, I'm certain..to cast her as somehow trapped in an abusive situation, I don't buy it...she did not have to write on the card that she loved him, she chose to, and that speaks volumes to me. I think that card will have a big influence on the Judge, very telling that Nel did not have it read out, since it strongly contradicts the relationship he has tired to portray.

My sister had what you would call a loving relationship with her boyfriend who then became her husband but that didnt stop him beating the cr*p out of her when he became jealous of something he didnt quite like. She put up with him for many years and she was very attractive and very intelligent. I could never understand why she put up with, but he was very persuasive!

 

[Cherwell]

Problem is--prosecutor didn't give us any evidence of what the bad news might be, he didn't give us any evidence of what the fight might be about, or why they would even be fighting at all.

We are left with, "I love you."

1. Prosecution doesn't need to.
2. There is no way of knowing the reason for the fight.

 

[Forensics]

The assessor questions were interesting. What do y'all make of those?

The question regarding the alarm system was interesting, as Reeva had entered the house prior to Oscar and, as far as I know, she was alone....would she not have had prior knowledge of how to disarm the system or was it not on at the time?

If she did have knowledge, she could have disarmed it when she went downstairs to have a snack...if it was ever on that is..

 

[shane13]

Someone asked a few pages back what exactly did the Female Assessor ask OP. Sorry that I didn't see this question before now. I have transcribed the questions and answers:

FA (female assessor): Would you please confirm if the deceased in this matter had access to the alarm remote.

OP: She did my lady.

FA: And could she activate and deactivate the burglar alarm?

OP: I'm not sure if she knew how to but she would have been able to if she had the remote my lady.

FA: One last question. Tell me, I would like to know if the light in the toilet, if it was broken at the time of the incident.

OP: It wasn't working my lady.

This exchange happens beginning at 12:49 in the following video.

Oscar Pistorius Trial: Tuesday 15 April 2014, Session 2 - YouTube

ETA: This also contains the part where OP reads the Valentines Day card from Reeva to the court starting at 10:53.

Has anyone explained just how/why the light was not working?

 

[Cherwell]

What kind of pressing appointment might drive him to kill his girlfriend? :waitasec:

well, he was quite driven. If she woke him up or kept him up and he had some kind of big race the next day or important interview--but there's nothing like that.

So you admit that he might kill her if she disturbed him before an important event?

 

[molly333]

1. Prosecution doesn't need to.
2. There is no way of knowing the reason for the fight.

well, we need something, don't you agree?

Otherwise--coming out of the blue weights towards accident.

Neither do we know for sure it was them fighting. Maybe it was the couple down the street.

 

[TorisMom003]

Has anyone explained just how/why the light was not working?

No. OP has only said that it was not working. Perhaps Roux has another witness that will testify to the fact that the light was not working. Until then we only have the word of the defendant, who has reason to lie.

MOO

 

[soozieqtips]

Well all this talk about the trial has been spooking me out .. a saucepan moved of it's own accord and crashed down on the drainer in the kitchen earlier this evening, and I jumped out of my skin! :scared:

BBM - I put it to you jay-jay... that your version is so improbable, it cannot possibly be reasonably true. You are tailoring your evidence. Let me remind you of what you told the court earlier.

"I was in the kitchen Milady, I know definitely I was there, and at the same time I think I definitely wasn't there, but I remember seeing the saucepan, because when I poked it with a stick, it went up a bit and then back, and then... then I saw a shape move with a big pointy bit on the end of it, which I then realised was the handle of the saucepan, so I rubbed the handle and then I put the saucepan in my face. I remember from my memories and from some of my reconstructions that I didn't hold my face in my head or rub my nose in my hands until after I took the saucepan out of my face.

I understand Milady that the saucepan is crash proof and cannot crash itself. But from what I remember from my memories, or my reconstructions, I never said I didn't rub the handle in my face. I don't know why that detail was left out. And I didn't have my finger on the handle because I was by then holding my face in my ears and curling my eyelashes because I was humid and dry. I fail to see how I can be accused of saucepan crashing when it wasn't my intention to crash the saucepan or to boil any milk. And the light wasn't on so that's maybe why the saucepan fell off, because it couldn't see. I know I've never changed my version, and I also understand I have 17 versions that I partially remember, but I'm sure, I think, or am I, I don't know, but yes, this one is the truth. I have no reason not to tell the truth, so the saucepan is a liar. Thank you Milady".

 

[TipDog]

Tell the police there is a killer in the house...

OP didn't know there was a "killer" in the house. He claims he thought it was an intruder. But (assuming his version), he didn't even know if the intruder, locked behind a closed door, was even armed. As we all now know, there was only one killer in the house that night and it wasn't any intruder.

Personally, I wish Reeva could have called the police to tell them there was a killer, OP, in the house and then none of us would be be having this discussion. She'd have either lived or there would be solid evidence of what really happened that night.

 

[Carmelita]

The question regarding the alarm system was interesting, as Reeva had entered the house prior to Oscar and, as far as I know, she was alone....would she not have had prior knowledge of how to disarm the system or was it not on at the time?

If she did have knowledge, she could have disarmed it when she went downstairs to have a snack...if it was ever on that is..

Is that a known? I thought that she arrived at the house about ten minutes before him and then he arrived but there is no verification that she entered the home before he got home. My memory on this is fuzzy so I may be wrong.