Trial Discussion Thread #26 - 14.04.15, Day 23

[supernovaNic]

And there never will be!

more more inf . share. please.

 

[supernovaNic]

I didn't see Reeva's mom in the court today.

 

[lisasalinger]

I feel slightly disappointed with the ending to this cross examination. Nel went out with a bit of a whimper. There seem to be many questions left unanswered.

Oscar stuck with his story the whole time and although there are lots of holes in his version I think it will be difficult to convict him of killing Reeva with intent. As others have mentioned, the defenses case will likely only strengthen from now on.

Respectfully, I have to disagree. I thought Nel was fantastic. Nel has proven a mountain of lies from Oscar in every facet of his story that night. The Judge has not missed any of it, I assure you.

Don't forget that Nel gets to cross every one of the remaining defense witnesses so whomever else they call, Nel gets to pick away at their evidence too.

No matter how strong of a case, I always feel a little disappointed when each side comes to a close. In most trials, we all have about 100 more questions that we wanted asked. But the reality is that we're never going to know every detail of that night.

 

[Val1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by zwiebel View Post
If Reeva was wearing OP's jeans, should we presume she couldn't get to her own clothes?

Where was her overnight bag? In the bedroom or the upstairs sitting room, anyone?

Neatly packed on the sofa in OP's bedroom

Yes, but who put it there? :/

 

[Cher352]

Long 5 minutes! Guess I am too anxious to see what the defense has to offer.

 

[canny]

Yes me too..was expecting some kind of huge revelation today but nothing, actually more questions than answers. The state has not managed to convince me of his guilt in the intentional killing of Reeva.

Exactly, since his ears started ringing at the opportune movement he was unable to hear Reeva's blood curling screams, for this he is gonna spend the rest of his life in prison with real hard core burglars, oh how they will love to have him as their companion.

 

[Britlaws]

It looks like we're only to know when he sums up. I find that a bit weird but I guess he's still got witnesses to CE so may be hoping they can prove a bit more from them.

I have posted before that the state dont need to have a 'version' really. They have proved murder. He voluntarily shot the gun with deadly ammo 4 times into a confined space and knew the occupant would die, was likely to or was reckless as to whether they would. OP has admitted ALL this in testimony and/or cross exam.

The state has to rebut the self defence claim, basically prove beyond all reasonable doubt that OP 1) doesn't have an unusual paranoia about being a victim of crime and 2) that the knew it wasn't an intruder (not necessarily that he knew that it was RS but that he knew it wasn't an intruder).

Some of the things Nel hasnt asked about may not go to prove either #1 or #2 and that spending time endlessly questioning OP about them risks diluting the damaging effect of the things Nel has managed to pin OP on. The taking the phone away from the crime scene doesnt go to prove #1 or #2, so its just taking the attention away from the important stuff in my opinion. OP would just say something like he didn't realise or he forgot or some b****cks, so it would prove nothing that's relevant.

Just keep focussing on what the PT has to prove and not necessarily on what we would like to know.

 

[BritsKate]

Respectfully, I have to disagree. I thought Nel was fantastic. Nel has proven a mountain of lies from Oscar in every facet of his story that night. The Judge has not missed any of it, I assure you.



Don't forget that Nel gets to cross every one of the remaining defense witnesses so whomever else they call, Nel gets to pick away at their evidence too.



No matter how strong of a case, I always feel a little disappointed when each side comes to a close. In most trials, we all have about 100 more questions that we wanted asked. But the reality is that we're never going to know every detail of that night.

I totally agree. To me, most importantly, Oscar is on the record repeatedly stating he never intended to shoot anyone (involuntary), though the evidence clearly shows he intended to shoot someone, while claiming he was in overwhelming fear for his life (putative self-defence) and one should presume he intended to shoot using that defence.

JMO


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[AlexUK]

Long 5 minutes! Guess I am too anxious to see what the defense has to offer.

Has it turned into the tea break?

 

[kaos]

Can anybody confirm that Reeva's phone had been in the toilet at any point or is it just that it was in the toilet room?

 

[Forensics]

I also thought it odd that Oscar said he was screaming out most of the time whilst searching for Reeva, putting on his prosthetic legs, getting the cricket bat to break down the door. But when he actually confirmed his worst fears, that it was indeed Reeva, he was just sad.

 

[Freya1977]

Who'll be up next, I wonder?

 

[lisasalinger]

I can't believe it. Not a mention of damage to the bedroom door, or the jeans outside on the ground? Barely touched on phone calls or why he went upstairs when Dr stipp was there

I really wanted Nel to ask about the bedroom door. I am disappointed about that!

As for why he went upstairs when Stipp was there, no doubt he would have said it was to get Reeva's handbag for the paramedic. There is an inconsistency in that story because the paramedic had not arrived yet, according to Stipp. So yea, he should have asked about this too.

 

[04009margaret]

Sky is reporting that during the break OP left the courtroom, but was called back into the courtroom by a member of his defense team. Since then they have been involved in an intense discussion. He is still on the stand, I thought this wasn't allowed

 

[shane13]

It will all be nicely tied together by Nel in the end.

OP will just change his story no matter what Nel asks him, IMO. I think Nel has already caught OP in enough inconsistances!

Well I agree to some extent.
And Oscar in his Oscar-Speak tripped himself up almost on his own.

And yes we MAY here a great close by Nel (or we may not).

It's jsut that overall while Nel was good, it seemed that several times --like the 31 second pause--Nel eased up just when he had him on the verge.
And again I think numerous good Qs were never put to him.

I would lke to compare Nel going after Selebi was it for 2 weeks and compare that with here. But I won't take the time.

So I await Nel's close, but I thought today was dubious and on average some other things were too.

 

[Cher352]

Can anybody confirm that Reeva's phone had been in the toilet at any point or is it just that it was in the toilet room?

I don't think it was ever meant to be the actual toilet bowl. Seems all them refer to the toilet room as just the toilet.

 

[Really?]

Can anybody confirm that Reeva's phone had been in the toilet at any point or is it just that it was in the toilet room?

I don't think so......OP might have just said "toilet" to shorten an answer

 

[LaLaw2000]

There has been so much time wasted in this trial. I suppose Roux is not prepeared because he didn't think Nel would finish so soon this morning although Nel had stated he would finish today.

Maybe I am too impatient because I am accustomed to seeing a trial move much more continuously than this one. Too many adjournments here!!

MOO

 

[Cher352]

Sky is reporting that during the break OP left the courtroom, but was called back into the courtroom by a member of his defense team. Since then they have been involved in an intense discussion. He is still on the stand, I thought this wasn't allowed

Do they not do a re-cross there?

 

[Really?]

My guess on the time of this wait is DT's witness not there yet. Thinking Nel will have OP on the stand longer?