Trial Discussion Thread #27 - 14.04.16, Day 24

[kittychi]

If she really thought it was a home invasion herself, maybe not.

And, maybe she was standing at the locked door listening to see if she could figure out what was going on and what all the ruckus was about?

But, why didn't she call the police on her cell phone? Maybe you can't in SA?

Maybe she couldn't understand what he was saying?

Think about this: In Oscar's "version" Reeva did not make a SOUND. She was SILENT. No talking, no yelling, no screaming. Nothing.

According to Oscar, the last words she said to him were "can't you sleep, Baba?"

 

[molly333]

Whether Reeva was the one screaming or she was hiding quietly in the bathroom waiting for Oscar to deal with the fantasy intruders, or even if she was in the bathroom hiding from Oscar himself--

Why didn't she call police on her cell phone? This is driving me crazy now.

 

[dianebowen]

the other things that struck me - after the shots were fired, i don't think he did anything or said anything to establish if indeed anyone was in the bathroom. He didn't call out, listen at the door, try to open the door straight away. For all he knew, the intruder was in the bathroom but not hit and could have come out and attacked him (or whatever).

bingo!

 

[molly333]

Think about this: In Oscar's "version" Reeva did not make a SOUND. She was SILENT. No talking, no yelling, no screaming. Nothing.

According to Oscar, the last words she said to him were "can't you sleep, Baba?"

It's really creepy. It's like Reeva just went silent. You're right.

Or why would she scream and not call police?

 

[James50]

If you were in the toilet and you heard your partner, out of the blue, screaming to "call the police" and "get out of my house" would you keep quiet? What if you heard your partner's voice in the bathroom just outside the toilet?

You would if you were not sure what all the commotion was about, and you were still trying to assess what was going on. There would be a crucial delay while you tried to put two and two together. And remember all of this happened in seconds. There was very little time for her to react.

Besides, if she called out from inside the toilet knowing there was an intruder in the house, she would have alerted that intruded to her location and put herself in mortal danger. Of course the very opposite was true, but she had no way of knowing that at that stage.

The logical thing was to get up off the toilet, quickly lock the door (which is the sound I believe OP heard when he said he thought he heard the door open, and not the magazine rack), and switch on her cell phone to call the cops just as he had shouted for her to do. Which is why he found her cell phone switched on.

 

[Hatfield]

If you were in the toilet and you heard your partner, out of the blue, screaming to "call the police" and "get out of my house" would you keep quiet? What if you heard your partner's voice in the bathroom just outside the toilet?

If I personally knew OP like she would have known him I am sure she would have yelled out:
"Dont Shoot its just me taking a pee."

 

[Val1]

Think about this: In Oscar's "version" Reeva did not make a SOUND. She was SILENT. No talking, no yelling, no screaming. Nothing.

According to Oscar, the last words she said to him were "can't you sleep, Baba?"

He seemed so certain it makes one wonder if she was gagged or unconscious from that point on. :/

 

[Viper]

(Response to my question as to why Reeva had not phoned the police as Oscar had requested)

That is a possibility, but I've just run through Pistorius' testimony and it seems he was at pains to point out how slowly he approached the danger in the bathroom once he screamed for Reeva to phone the police.

I've taken the liberty of sketching out the relevant sections of his testimony below:

EVIDENCE IN CHIEF (session 3, Tuesday 8th April) - ​

1.16.20 –​

“Just before I got to the passage I remember slowing down.”​

1.17.15 –​

“As I entered the passage where the closet is to the bathroom, it was at that point that I was overcome with fear and started screaming and shouting for the intruders to get out of my house. I shouted for Reeva to get on the floor, I shouted for her to phone the police.”​

1.18.00 -​

“I slowly made my way down the passage”​

EVIDENCE IN CHIEF (Session 4, Tuesday 8th April)​

3.23 –​

“I didn’t have as much mobility on the tiled surfaces.”​

4.20 –​

“As I slowly peered into the bathroom I could see that the window was open”​

4.40 –​

“I was leaning, slowly scuffling, my back against the wall”

He then describes how he peered round the corner to look at the shower and upon realising there is no-one there backs up against the far wall…​

6.35 –​

“At this point I started screaming again for Reeva to call the police….. I stood there for some time. I’m not sure how long.... I just stayed where I was and carried on screaming...didn’t know where to point the gun…and then I heard a noise from inside the toilet….before I knew it I had fired four shots at the door."​

CROSS EXAM (Friday, 11th April)​

2.30.05 -​

“I rushed towards where the passage and bedroom meet my lady, just before you enter the passage.”​

2.31.15 -​

PT – “And that’s why you stormed, you wanted to shoot”
OP – “We are talking about two separate times in the evening, I didn’t storm to the bathroom my lady, I ran to where the passage began and then I walked extremely slowly and cautiously to just before the corner where the bathroom passage is.”​

2.34.35 -​

OP: “I started screaming and shouting my lady as I entered the passageway.”
PT: “And what did you shout and scream?”
OP: “I screamed for the persons to get out of my house, I screamed for Reeva to phone the police, I repeated it several times.”​

2.48.35 -​

“…I didn’t form an arc and trim the wall, I walked all the way down the closet to the last cupboard…I slowly moved forward along the carpet to where the tiles begin.​

____________________________________________

So on his evidence we know he slowed down to an extremely slow pace from just before the passage. That he then shouted at Steenkamp to call the police at that point. He then continued extremely slowly down the passage screaming ‘several times’ - each of which would have taken at least some portion of time. He then must have taken a moment to become quiet and to peer into the bathroom passage. After discovering it to be clear he then slowly edged to the last closet, moved forward (slowly scuffled) down the bathroom corridor with decreased mobility and peered into the bathroom. He then took a moment to note the absence of enemies, an open window and a closed bathroom door. He then backs up to the wall where he stays for some time, and again starts screaming for Steenkamp to phone the police.

To me this seems ample time for a person in the toilet to comply with his initial request to phone the police.

Links

Evidence in chief

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMMdyuXfFUg (session 3 Tuesday 8th April)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmadaSpdQdI (session 4 Tuesday 8th April)


X Exam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBvvA4cL5Zc (Friday 11th

^^^^This^^^^

Your post is just too good Ron! I was laughing the whole time that I read it and I still am laughing!

I am reading to catch up with everyone but I think I will just skip and come up to where you folks are.

I'm sure it has been mentioned by others but OP is slowly attacking Mr. Armed Intruder after he (Reeva) opened the window to give Reeva time to slam the door, lock the door, empty her bladder, finish up, pull up her shorts, and then stand in front if the door holding the handle with (at least) her right hand!

Too bad that they close these threads every day, I would love to keep bumping this post up at least once every day until the verdict is rendered.

:goodpost: :thumb:

 

[aoibhinn]

The distance may play a part on how fast the sound carried, correct? The gunshots would obviously be faster than the voice.

I was doing a Dixon myself and trying to investigate that online. Even though "the crack is the shock wave created as the bullet breaks the sound barrier" and "the bang is the ‘muzzle blast’ – the sound of pressurised gases escaping as the bullet leaves the barrel of the gun ... (louder than a jet engine)", "they happen virtually simultaneously ... to human ears." ........

http://thesoftanonymous.com/2011/10/30/gunshot-forensics-whats-in-a-bang/

http://earplugstore.typepad.com/got_ears_get_informed/2012/09/what-makes-a-gunshot-so-loud.html

..... I'm not sure there would be a noticeable time delay between a gunshot and a human scream, over that distance.

 

[molly333]

If you were in the toilet and you heard your partner, out of the blue, screaming to "call the police" and "get out of my house" would you keep quiet? What if you heard your partner's voice in the bathroom just outside the toilet?

I might lock myself in the water closet and keep quiet and listen.

But I would call police if I had my phone.

She must not have had her phone. Or it didn't work.

Is there any other explanation? She had time to dial 1011

 

[TipDog]

Oscar's being able to rush and run about as a disabled man does not exclude him from having limited mobility. Just the opposite, in his rushing and running about he still had limited mobility. So they are neither objectively duplicitous, deceitful or mutually exclusive statements.

Respectfully, I disagree. I believe he used the verbs "rush" and "run," and the adjective "slowly" to add credibility to his made up version where needed - I honestly found his affi and testimony to sound just like some fictional story where we are just expected to believe the character did what he did as it is simply written that way and not at all like a real recounting of what actually happened. So, by very nature of my thinking he's concocted one big false version makes him deceitful in my eyes. Also, I'm a simple gal - when you tell me you have limited mobility, I don't ever imagine you rushing to do anything or running from one room to the next. I would expect you to use more phrases like "moved as quickly as I could" or "walked as fast as I can." I'm splitting hairs in some ways, but these are strictly my thoughts on why I see duplicity. I'm not trying to persuade anyone to agree if they don't.

 

[Panda]

Just as a total aside - I wonder how much influence OP's criminal profiler aunt Micki Pistorius has in his case.

 

[kittychi]

You would if you were not sure what all the commotion was about, and you were still trying to assess what was going on. There would be a crucial delay while you tried to put two and two together. And remember all of this happened in seconds. There was very little time for her to react.

Besides, if she called out from inside the toilet knowing there was an intruder in the house, she would have alerted that intruded to her location and put herself in mortal danger. Of course the very opposite was true, but she had no way of knowing that at that stage.

The logical thing was to get up off the toilet, quickly lock the door (which is the sound I believe OP heard when he said he thought he heard the door open, and not the magazine rack), and switch on her cell phone to call the cops just as he had shouted for her to do. Which is why he found her cell phone switched on.

BBM: But if his "version" is true, he was quite close to her while he was hollering in the hallway. IMO it just isn't reasonable that you wouldn't respond. He didn't say "Reeva! An intruder! Call the police!" In his version, she wouldn't even know why he said to call police. Why wouldn't she yell "What?" or "Why!?" out from inside the toilet?

She was SILENT. In OP's version she was SILENT.

 

[shane13]

Is it true that cleaning people wiped the actual door?

 

[TrueDetective]

About Reeva's phone...

The last call was an outgoing call to OP at 17:44. Her last GPRS connection started at 20:04:17 and lasted for over 11 hours (41 000 seconds).

I am suddenly confused.
I thought that Cecil Myers received an SMS from Reeva at around 10-10.30pm?
Where is the record of that?
Is he lying? I doubt it. Have they tallied his record with the billing record?
If it does not tally with Moller's records then what has gone wrong?

Scratching head.

 

[TipDog]

You would if you were not sure what all the commotion was about, and you were still trying to assess what was going on. There would be a crucial delay while you tried to put two and two together. And remember all of this happened in seconds. There was very little time for her to react.

Besides, if she called out from inside the toilet knowing there was an intruder in the house, she would have alerted that intruded to her location and put herself in mortal danger. Of course the very opposite was true, but she had no way of knowing that at that stage.

The logical thing was to get up off the toilet, quickly lock the door (which is the sound I believe OP heard when he said he thought he heard the door open, and not the magazine rack), and switch on her cell phone to call the cops just as he had shouted for her to do. Which is why he found her cell phone switched on.

Please go read Mr. Ron's post a page or so back. Reeva had plenty of time to call the police or cry out to tell OP where she was in OP's version.

 

[James50]

If I personally knew OP like she would have known him I am sure she would have yelled out:
"Dont Shoot its just me taking a pee."

Yes, if you knew he had the gun pointed at the door. But if you had no idea what was going on, you'd simply bolt the door and freeze in fear.

 

[TipDog]

I am suddenly confused.
I thought that Cecil Myers received an SMS from Reeva at around 10-10.30pm?
Where is record of that?
Is he lying?
If it does not tally with Moller's records then what has gone wrong?

Scratching head.

This is what I thought as well, but I couldn't remember the timing other than it was after 10pm (iirc).

 

[molly333]

BBM: But if his "version" is true, he was quite close to her while he was hollering in the hallway. IMO it just isn't reasonable that you wouldn't respond. He didn't say "Reeva! An intruder! Call the police!" In his version, she wouldn't even know why he said to call police. Why wouldn't she yell "What?" or "Why!?" out from inside the toilet?

She was SILENT. In OP's version she was SILENT.

Her silence is telling us something but I can't hear it yet.

If she didn't have her cell phone, why would he lie about that?

If she did have her cell phone, why didn't she call or text?

 

[dianebowen]

Excellent post! TOP RATE!

In any case, he's the very sort of man who should never have kept a gun in the house. Given his previous record, shot a dog HE injured, shot off gun in crowded restaurant, shot gun through sun roof, grabbed gun in reaction to dryer rumbling despite highest security, he's PROVEN hair-trigger, and possibly borderline paranoid, as evidenced by his intent to purchase an arsenal...

Even if I were not to subscribe to the notion that he shot Reeva with ANY degree of lethal intention, he reminds me of people who keep driving drunk even when they've had accidents before (hit a dog, destroyed property, hit and run--got away with it or didn't). Now, finally they kill someone, but insist they should not be held responsible.

OP deserves serious punishment. He continued to handle a lethal weapon despite every warning that he wasn't responsible enough to. We hold that drunken driver responsible, and sentence accordingly, when, yet again, failing to learn her lesson, she drives drunk and this time kills.

Analogously, OP deserves to be declared "out" on this strike. The drunk driver could have taken a taxi, should have chosen a designated driver before sitting down to drink. OP could have pressed the panic button, got himself and Reeva out of harm's way, yelled for help from the balcony, fired a warning shot. The drunk driver did not have to get behind the wheel. NO MATTER WHAT OP THOUGHT, he did not have to fire his weapon.

If he did order the intruder/s out of his house, and heard sounds of intruder coming out of stall, why not let him "get the F-out?" Or hold him at gunpoint until police come?

He's got an answer for why he did not avail himself of other options: not enough time to think, cops useless thieves, had to protect Reeva ...

Sometimes I think OP tailors his testimony to questions raised on this board!

Okay. I am being histrionic and paranoid. Not to say self-important, but only on behalf of the terrific points made here.

But back to Natasha's more than nifty post, by his own account, he reacts irrationally, impulsively, out of all proportion to external reality, and without provocation (what did the dog or dog's guardian do to him? what did the cop do in stopping him that should have angered him enough to shoot off a gun, endangering others?).

Let his sentence drive the lesson home this time. Nothing yet has done it.

I am convinced that this is what the judge is thinking.