Trial Discussion Thread #27 - 14.04.16, Day 24

[Hatfield]

I have PROOF. I can prove to everyone he is lying about these parts at least.

Im speaking from experience here about grabbing my gun in the middle of the night and checking my house for an intruder and I can guarantee you 100% certainty that you

1-NEVER EVER go charging or fast in the house towards the noise.
You always carefully and quietly go explore where the sound is coming from.

Because you want to be stealth and not let the intruder know where you are OR you could be shot by them.

2-You NEVER EVER shout out to the intruder to get out of your house until you find out if its an intruder or not. Every single time I have explored for intruders in the middle of the night with my gun (at least 3 times), I ALWAYS am very quiet and NEVER want to give my location away as they could then hurt me first.

3-100% of the time I ALWAYS first let my significant other know to STAY PUT and do not leave the bed for any reason at all. I demand this of her as I show her I am leaving with my gun and she then knows that she should never leave the room due to the obvious danger if I was to somehow ever mistaken her for the intruder. This is why I ALWAYS make sure where she is first and order her to remain put.

4-If I ever heard noise in the house and I could not find my spouse, I would always assume it was her 100% of the time and would NEVER assume it was an intruder.

I would NEVER even go for my gun if I did not know where she was.

If an intruder had entered my house and killed my wife in the kitchen, I would most likely be killed by intruder stumbling into the kitchen thinking it was her.

 

[minor4th]

Who was it that brought in the duvet to court this morning? Was it the Defense? Or was it police or someone from the State's side? If it was the Defense then it seems that most if not all of the evidence (objects belonging to OP) were handed over to the Defense before the trial started or right after it started.

Can one of members from SA post if they know why Nel said the door was released back to the public? Please and Thank You!

I believe that the police have been bringing in all the evidence items to court (including the door and the cricket bat)

 

[molly333]

They obviously do things much differently. It just didn't really make sense to me that the door would be released back to the public when it's obviously an item of evidence the prosecution used in their case. That all makes me really uncomfortable because I'm so used to evidence bags and lots of testimony about chain of custody and so forth lol

Hard to maintain chain of custody when the police are stealing stuff.

 

[Val1]

Just as a total aside - I wonder how much influence OP's criminal profiler aunt Micki Pistorius has in his case.

I'm pretty sure that's how the friend of the family that said he'd take of OP showed up at the crime scene and whisked him off to the medical centre before he'd even been booked.

 

[TorisMom003]

Because she didn't know that the intruder who Oscar was screaming about was actually her in the bathroom, so she thought there really was an intruder in the house and she was being silent/hiding?

According to OP's version, she didn't know there was an "intruder" because he never told her there was one or said the word intruder until after he had shot her 3 times.

 

[DebinGA]

He said the passage and bathroom were lit enough for ambient light.

There's no indication the light was on until after the first gunshots that the Stipps heard.

OP mentioned many times he was too afraid to turn on a light in bathroom or bedroom. Who turned on the light in the bathroom that both Stipps testified was clearly ON around 3:00?

 

[zoran]

Is it true that cleaning people wiped the actual door?

yes and he got the cleaning mafia offside when he said they did not seem to apply a lot of pressure when cleaning the door. This he saw with his expert eyes

 

[minor4th]

Hopefully you have plenty of uncooked rice on hand in your kitchen. My daughters friend took her phone into our bathroom one night, dropped it right in the water.

I have done that before (not in the toilet, but in my car's cupholder where hot chocolate spilled) and my sons have done it a number of times - usually jumping into a swimming pool or lake or washing their clothes without emptying the pockets. The uncooked rice trick works!

 

[Mr Ron]

\


Because calling for help would have alerted any would be intruder to her location. Assuming he was in the bathroom armed with gun, that would have spelled certain death.

The phone was on. It would have taken her a few moments to grab it and switch it on, and keep in mind that all of this was happeneing very fast. Perhaps she did dial a number but couldn't get a signal from inside the toilet. Perhaps she wasnted to try and assess what was going on first by straining to listen before she called, Any number of reasons. It's easy to talk about this in the light of day, but all of this was happening in the dead of night and she would have been ****ting herself with fear.

He was asked if she had answered him, and he said "I wish she had."

Oscar testified to screaming for Reeva to phone the police at the entrance to the bedroom passage way. At this point he also yelled "Get the ****** out of my house." He testified to repeating this exact phrase several times while moving "extremely slowly" down the bedroom portion of the corridor. She would not have had to strain to hear anything and it should be obvious to her there is an intruder given the content of his constantly repeated message.

Certainly Reeva would have needed time to parse all these things together and she would certainly be frightened, but we know she was in action before he reached the end of the first passageway because she had got up and slammed the door while Oscar was screaming.

After this point (when we know Reeva was active in Pistorius' version) Oscar still had to be quiet, peer into the second passageway, edge to the final cupboard, scuffle slowly down the second passageway, peer slowly into the bathroom, back up to the wall, stand there for 'some time' and start screaming again.

 

[minor4th]

OP mentioned many times he was too afraid to turn on a light in bathroom or bedroom. Who turned on the light in the bathroom that both Stipps testified was clearly ON around 3:00?

Oscar did - it was after the gunshots. I don't think that's something that's disputed though?

 

[TorisMom003]

Hard to maintain chain of custody when the police are stealing stuff.

Unless proof is provided that this is true, and to the best of my knowledge that proof does not exist, can this rumor be dropped please.

Just because OP blamed the police for stealing one of his watches does NOT mean that it happened. OP had numerous friends, family, etc there roaming up and downstairs that could have carted off that watch for him or to spite him.

 

[minor4th]

yes and he got the cleaning mafia offside when he said they did not seem to apply a lot of pressure when cleaning the door. This he saw with his expert eyes

This is actually something he is qualified to give an expert opinion about

 

[molly333]

I have PROOF. I can prove to everyone he is lying about these parts at least.

Im speaking from experience here about grabbing my gun in the middle of the night and checking my house for an intruder and I can guarantee you 100% certainty that you

1-NEVER EVER go charging or fast in the house towards the noise.
You always carefully and quietly go explore where the sound is coming from.

Because you want to be stealth and not let the intruder know where you are OR you could be shot by them.

2-You NEVER EVER shout out to the intruder to get out of your house until you find out if its an intruder or not. Every single time I have explored for intruders in the middle of the night with my gun (at least 3 times), I ALWAYS am very quiet and NEVER want to give my location away as they could then hurt me first.

3-100% of the time I ALWAYS first let my significant other know to STAY PUT and do not leave the bed for any reason at all. I demand this of her as I show her I am leaving with my gun and she then knows that she should never leave the room due to the obvious danger if I was to somehow ever mistaken her for the intruder. This is why I ALWAYS make sure where she is first and order her to remain put.

4-If I ever heard noise in the house and I could not find my spouse, I would always assume it was her 100% of the time and would NEVER assume it was an intruder.

I would NEVER even go for my gun if I did not know where she was.

If an intruder had entered my house and killed my wife in the kitchen, I would most likely be killed by intruder stumbling into the kitchen thinking it was her.

I take it you wouldn't turn on any lights either?

What's your opinion of his story? Do you think it at all plausible?

It doesn't sound like he has a lot of 'gun sense.'

 

[Mr Ron]

According to OP, it was indeed switched on, because that's how he found it.

Sorry, I was responding to you saying that she had to turn it on. I misunderstood your meaning.

 

[minor4th]

Unless proof is provided that this is true, and to the best of my knowledge that proof does not exist, can this rumor be dropped please.

Just because OP blamed the police for stealing one of his watches does NOT mean that it happened. OP had numerous friends, family, etc there roaming up and downstairs that could have carted off that watch for him or to spite him.

Actually it was Vermuelen who first accused the police of stealing a watch, and he even filed a police report about it.

 

[James50]

I don't know, James. This is an interesting aspect of his version to me. RS and her mom were victims of a previous home invasion. Without having known her, I can't possible guess whether her reaction would be to freeze out of fear in the moment with past PTSD attached to it or to come out of that toilet in a more aggressive move in order not to be trapped there (and this could be motivated by her past experience, as well).

When OP yelled "Reeva, call the police!", he told the intruder(s) that a woman was in the house. What a stupid thing to do, really. If the intruders existed and killed him, they might tear that place apart looking for a woman (women are often raped in home invasions in SA from what I've read). So, for her to stay in the toilet completely silent doesn't fly in the face of logic to me either.

\

I would wager that 9 out of 10 people wouild react the same way. All of a sudden, in the dead of night, you here someone screaming at you to call the cops. I guarantee you will be extremely frightened almost to the point of paralysis. It's all too easy to discuss this from the comfort of our armchairs, but what I see over and over here is people failing to consider the context.

 

[Feynman]

I found it very interesting that the sounds of the cricket bat hits and the gunshots each sounded almost the same volume or loudness at 60 meters and 180 meters. That surprised me

Yes, although I was originally onboard with Stipp, I think testimony of the form "I know what I heard. I've been around guns. Those were gunshots" can now, pretty much, be put aside. (I'm guessing even the good Dr. Stipp may be inclined to agree by now.) In the heat of the night, it would be easy to confuse the two, so I don't mean to insult the witnesses. In fact, bravo to the witnesses; it's not an easy thing to appear before the world as they have done.

I am not claiming the two kinds of loud bangs are identical in sound. They may be quite distinct, once the listener, scores of meters away, is primed to notice the difference.

 

[Plumeria5]

Oscar testified to screaming for Reeva to phone the police at the entrance to the bedroom passage way. At this point he also yelled "Get the ****** out of my house." He testified to repeating this exact phrase several times while moving "extremely slowly" down the bedroom portion of the corridor. She would not have had to strain to hear anything and it should be obvious to her there is an intruder given the content of his constantly repeated message.

Certainly Reeva would have needed time to parse all these things together and she would certainly be frightened, but we know she was in action before he reached the end of the first passageway because she had got up and slammed the door while Oscar was screaming.

After this point (when we know Reeva was active in Pistorius' version) Oscar still had to be quiet peer into the second passageway, edge to the final cupboard, scuffle slowly down the second passageway, peer slowly into the bathroom, back up to the wall, stand there for 'some time' and start screaming again.

BBM I think he admitted to screaming that because he actually yelled that at Reeva and needed a cover for saying it.

 

[wb180]

Because she didn't know that the intruder who Oscar was screaming about was actually her in the bathroom, so she thought there really was an intruder in the house and she was being silent/hiding?

If you believe in OP, then she should have called the police as other people have pointed out as it took a long time for OP to shoot her while he was screaming all the time.

 

[James50]

Because she didn't know that the intruder who Oscar was screaming about was actually her in the bathroom, so she thought there really was an intruder in the house and she was being silent/hiding?

Exactly! You said it much better than me in the end.