Trial Discussion Thread #27 - 14.04.16, Day 24

[Panda]

Do you guys remember Oscar at the Olympics - not during his own, was it 400m run, but in the 4x400 relay race...where something happened and the S. Africa team ended up being disqualified?

I just remember the look on his face - I could tell he was very angry. But he was trying not to show it. I remember it being like a very restrained anger. And he had a very weird look on his face.

Anyway....also, you all will remember that much of the focus during that Olympics was on him b/c it was a good story and of course NBC wanted to bring in viewers with a good story. But I remember the expression on his face was always like he was uncomfortable with all of the attention. Like for example, other star athletes would smile normally at the camera, then go back to being focused. Or like Usain Bolt who was/is very comfortable with the spotlight. But Oscar's smile was very fake-looking and strained. As I said, he looked very uncomfortable in the spotlight.

I dunno, maybe I am just reading too much into it, but I do remember thinking those things at that time. Not now, but even then.

I think Oscar wanted and craved the attention, but he also had many struggles within. Such as anger. Example when they were disqualified - he was trying too hard to hold in his anger. I think he always tried to be someone he wasn't in front of others. B/c maybe he was almost too scared to show them the real him. The one with struggles inside - struggle with anger, struggle with personality, etc..

One thing I have always wondered is - what do his teammates say about him?

No, I didn't see that but it wouldn't surprise me.

I have noticed how his demeanour is totally different in the court room as opposed to when he's out of the confines of the court - I think he's been very carefully coached regarding how to behave when in court. Outside court he appears a very controlled person to me.

Haven't heard about what his teammates have said, but would be interesting.

 

[Val1]

OT

Just a couple main gun safety tips for others.

One of the most common gun safety rules that I have seen broken on the gun range is this one:

-Always Keep The Muzzle Pointed In A Safe Direction ALWAYS !!!

It amazes me at times how people sometimes dont follow this rule. My own father was showing me a new firearm once and even though it was unloaded he kept waving it around and I kept ducking. He never grasped rule #1.


Here is another rule that I follow and you dont always see this one listed but I feel it is important and if you follow this rule and the above rule, you most likely will never have a bad accident.

-Treat every gun as if it is loaded, even if you know (think) it is unloaded.

This rule is critical because there are many people who have been killed by an "unloaded" weapon. The old "I thought it was unloaded" excuse.
If you follow this rule and the above one, then it will help you to never have a deadly accident with a firearm.

Below are the official main rules of gun safety:

http://www.nssf.org/safety/basics/index.cfm?

bbm - Yes, a couple of actors that come to mind that didn't heed that warning are Jon-Erik Hexum and Brandon Lee. That's why I never even bought toy guns for my kids, guns are not toys.

 

[anagrammy]

Is it possible she had her phone with her in the toilet but was afraid to call 911 because OP was right outside the door and could hear? Maybe she thought this would enrage him further and was trying to talk him down from his rage -- hence she was close to the door when 1st shot was fired?

JMO

It also might be possible that she didn't make the call because she thought OP yelling "Reeva, Call the police!" was for the purpose of scaring away the intruders. She might have thought twice about actually making the call because she knows how OP is about bad publicity. Such a police call would make the papers. So she holds off, figuring he has a plan.

She is at the door with it locked for her safety, listening when OP shoots her. She screams but he can't hear her and just keeps firing?

 

[minor4th]

Different points from which to view, I don't think that psychologically you can separate "Blade Runner" from the whinny, crying, retching Oscar. they are one and the same. It is Oscars strive for perfection that made him Blade Runner it is also his inability to accept his imperfections that has landed him in the box.



I think Oscar's back tattoo says a lot about him and his character and his intolerance of his own humanity.

That is right on the money IMO. I just read his book a week or so ago, and it really came through loud and clear that he could not accept any kind of defeat, and he could not tolerate imperfection in himself. From his upbringing, it seems he was indoctrinated from a very young age to never accept "no" for an answer, never concede anything, and never stop striving for a goal no matter what.

It did seem this attitude was instilled more in him than his siblings because of his disability. I also think his mothers death at age 14 had a huge impact on him that he probably does not even understand.

 

[Greater Than]

Correct that I never turn on any lights when searching my house either. The idea is to search without the intruder knowing you are investigating. You have the element of surprise and you dont want to lose that at all.

I purposely leave small lights on in certain rooms that allow me to explore without needing any flashlights or anything. Like in the kitchen, I have the stove light on at night and I have night lights in certain other rooms. So I can navigate without needing a flashlight.

Also at night, your eyes adjust to the darkness and you can see pretty good so long as there is some small lighting somewhere. Unless it is pitch total darkness which is highly unusual in most places.

Regarding his story, JMO but I am left to think his story is mostly lying. I am of the opinion he had a screaming fight with his girlfriend and she went and hid from him in the bathroom which enraged him even more and he went and got his gun and just blew her away.

That's the most logical scenario IMO given the facts of the case. And I'll go one step further to add that Oscar yelling, "Get the f*ck out of my house!" was not directed to the mystical intruder he was defending himself from, but to Reeva. They were arguing, she hid from him in the bathroom, her told her to GTFO.

MOO

 

[lisasalinger]

And seriously, hasn't everyone heard something in the middle of the night ?

I certainly have! And the first thing I've done each and every time...is say outloud...while shaking my husband ..."did you hear that?"
And if he's not awake...I wake him up...to listen with me. lol

It's usually our cat rearranging the furniture downstairs or a raccoon or something trying to go through our trash and is messing with the lids outside.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I had dinner with some family last night and the trial came up. A few relatives didn't know the details of the story other than OP had mistaken his girlfriend for an intruder.

When I started to tell them the details of the story, the first question they asked was "why didn't he ask her if she heard the noise?"

I had to chuckle... It always come back to that.

I didn't even bother to tell them the rest of his inconsistencies. They would have thought I was making it up.

 

[minor4th]

The only problem with that, is that it is the first set of bangs that would have primed them to hear gunshots on the second, correct?

I don't understand your question

 

[lisasalinger]

That's the most logical scenario IMO given the facts of the case. And I'll go one step further to add that Oscar yelling, "Get the f*ck out of my house!" was not directed to the mystical intruder he was defending himself from, but to Reeva. They were arguing, she hid from him in the bathroom, her told her to GTFO.

MOO

After his meltdown on the stand from saying those words, Nel asked him why he got emotional remembering what he said to the intruders. Here is his response:

“I’m traumatized by the event and by repeating those exact words I’m reminded about that night, what I felt in that evening.” And then quickly says, “morning.”

Oops.

I most definitely think he yelled those words at her.

 

[Greater Than]

That is right on the money IMO. I just read his book a week or so ago, and it really came through loud and clear that he could not accept any kind of defeat, and he could not tolerate imperfection in himself. From his upbringing, it seems he was indoctrinated from a very young age to never accept "no" for an answer, never concede anything, and never stop striving for a goal no matter what.

It did seem this attitude was instilled more in him than his siblings because of his disability. I also think his mothers death at age 14 had a huge impact on him that he probably does not even understand.

So his life has been an uphill battle, but he doesn't get a pass because of it. He should've spent more time in therapy rather than the gun range.

 

[minor4th]

So his life has been an uphill battle, but he doesn't get a pass because of it. He should've spent more time in therapy rather than the gun range.

I didn't say he deserved a pass. I was commenting on his mentality and world view.

 

[lisasalinger]

not even close. I do have a knack of being able to place myself in other peoples shoes though.

I suppose I'm trying to approach this case as though I'm a member of a jury, the prosecutor, the defence council and each of the protagonists. At the moment I'm pretty confident that Oscar is tailoring his version to some degree, but I am not sure how much or why. I'm certainly not of the view that the prosecution has proven he intended to kill Reeva (specifically) beyond reasonable doubt (though it remains very much a possibility).

A major reason why I'm not at present willing to take his story at face value is his refusal to admit to the restaurant firearms charge, when it would appear to require a change in physical laws in order for his version to be correct. It seems he does have a deep seated need to remove as much blame as possible from himself and that this need is more pressing to him than the establishment of the Truth.

With regards to his testimony of the night in question, he seems to cast himself as a tragic hero - a victim of the whims of perceived circumstance - who made flawed but at root noble decisions in order to protect his loved one. For me this grates with the character of a man that won't own up to his obvious past mistakes.

At the moment though, I'm only knowledgeable about the case from the beginning of his testimony so I (and IMO so should everyone else) choose to reserve judgement.

BBM

Telling Reeva's family that she was loved that night and putting on this farce that his own life was in danger in order to save hers is appalling to me. Not only do I think he is a liar and a killer, I think he's a pathetic human being.

Sorry to be so brutal in my opinion. I've watched this trial very closely and have no doubt in my beliefs.

As for what the legal decision will ultimately be, I really don't know. I'm just speaking about my own personal interpretation of the evidence I've seen. I feel very strongly that he is guilty of intentionally killing her.

 

[Plumeria5]

For those of you that haven't seen this. Very interesting.

http://youtu.be/hj8TF4MrO8Q

 

[Greater Than]

I didn't say he deserved a pass. I was commenting on his mentality and world view.

But you're in the "not guilty" camp, correct?

After reading several of your posts defending him and then this most recent one regarding his upbringing and disability, I took it as your position of further defense. If I misinterpreted it, I apologize.

 

[molly333]

For those of you that haven't seen this. Very interesting.

http://youtu.be/hj8TF4MrO8Q

One week before her death,

"I absolutely adore Oscar."

 

[TrueDetective]

BBM

Telling Reeva's family that she was loved that night and putting on this farce that his own life was in danger in order to save hers is appalling to me. Not only do I think he is a liar and a killer, I think he's a pathetic human being.

Sorry to be so brutal in my opinion. I've watched this trial very closely and have no doubt in my beliefs.

As for what the legal decision will ultimately be, I really don't know. I'm just speaking about my own personal interpretation of the evidence I've seen. I feel very strongly that he is guilty of intentionally killing her.

I'm with you Lisa. All the way.

I admired him for what he'd achieved.
I now despise him for what I now firmly believe he did and the cynical lies he has continued to tell and the pain he has caused.
The very best he deserves is to go to jail for a very long time.

Celebrity, wealth, disability, power or influence cannot be allowed to distort justice. Its an important case for South Africa and I very much hope they get it right.

 

[Greater Than]

One week before her death,

"I absolutely adore Oscar."

And less than a month before her death via text message,

"I’m scared of u sometimes and how u snap at me and of how you will react to me,"

 

[lisasalinger]

Maybe, just maybe, she didn't have her cell phone. MOO

I do not think she had it in the toilet room with her. I think he lied about that. I mean for god sake, he even lied about the location of the magazine rack.

The phone was found on the bathroom floor with the cover knocked off, partially under a shower mat.

My theory is that she ran in to the bathroom during the fight (the Stipps testified that the screams got closer) and she had her phone with her. Oscar caught up to her and knocked the phone out of her hand. She made it in to the toilet and locked it and he shot her. I don't think she ever had a chance to use it. And I don't think that Oscar tried to use it.

I saw a great post on Twitter by somebody pointing out that all iPhones (and I believe many other phones) have the capability of calling 911 even when the keypad is locked. Look at your own phone and check it out.

But of course, Oscar had no intention of calling the police that night.

 

[patCee]

An article by SA author, Margie Orford, a renowned crime writer. She discusses the SA white male psyche in the context of SA's history of apartheid.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/04/oscar-pistorius-trial-black-stranger-defence

I'm flagging up this article again, as the author is linking the above article to Pistorius. I didn't make that clear previously for those who might be interested.

 

[whiterum]

I didn't say he deserved a pass. I was commenting on his mentality and world view.

IMO his world view is that he is of the opinion that no matter what offence he has committed someone should take the blame or better scurry to his aid and clean up in his wake. Even in the horrific killing of RS it's obvious he wants a full acquittal on this as well as the lesser charges, nothing else will suffice. Nel is so right he does not feel blame or responsibility for anything he has done and IMO could well do in future if he is not held accountable and gets the punishment he deserves.

 

[wb180]

One week before her death,

"I absolutely adore Oscar."

Is this another fatal flaw??