Trial Discussion Thread #28 - 14.04.17, Day 25

[steveml]

Where do you now get only 10cm difference?! The model used was stated to have been 1.1 metres on his knees, which he was for the "demonstration" and his nose up against the window/wall, whereas OP is 1.55 metres on his stumps which is in evidence as per Mangena's testimony. That's a difference of 45cm or 18 inches, big difference!

It was a typo. Asked and answered.

 

[Val1]

I don't think that is quite right not that it changes much. Neither appears to have exactly the qualifications that were needed but Vermeulen has undertaken many courses in various aspects associated with his work. I imagine, in his time with the police, that Dixon probably did too.

Vermeulen has a BSc degree majoring in Chemistry and Zoology not Geology.

He also has an Hons Degree and MSc in Chemistry.

All obtained from North West University.

Vermeulen has obviously studied a great deal more than Dixon but in their jobs I think it is experience that matters. Vermeulen was expected to be able to comment on something he had no real training for. Just like poor old Dixon.

I think another point that Nel raised was that Dixon is no longer licensed as a forensic investigator or whatever it was he was claiming to be qualified to attest to, as compared to the PT's expert who is tested yearly iirc.

 

[TrueDetective]

No I don't. That's why I don't think he would be over by the entrance to the bathroom.

The person standing over by the entrance to the bathroom was scared. :scared:

not angry.

Scared of what? Wood moving?
There was no reasonable evidence of any threat to warrant OP's fear and actions EVEN IN his own version.
It is so improbable that I put it to you, that is simply cannot be true. Don't you agree?

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I find Gerrie to be more 'cat' than 'dog' - except for the moments when he locks on to a witnesses arm and tears their muscles - then he is pure working dog (Rottie, Malinois etc)

I'm going to give you a LONG reply in the morning, and I actually have some interesting info re" putative self defence within SA law - precedent etc, as well as a Ruling, that came out this Monday past funnily enough (it isn't even in the SA court reports yet) in terms of both self defence and putative self defence - but it will be a long 'write' . Roger freaking Dixon has given me the headache from hell this evening.

Two days of that has left me :scared: It's almost midnight here in Cape Town so I'm going to sleep and I promise to write you that post in the morning. Apologies< I would love to do it now - but my post would be awful - a combo of <modsnip> and Roger (yes, that bad):facepalm:

Thank you once more everyone for the wonderful and warm welcome, sleep tight, or have a good day, or have a good evening - depending on where you are in the world - chat tommorrow. :seeya:

Will be checking in tomorrow to read your post

 

[james83]

Open question, looking at the bullet hole's in the door, do those bullet's look like they were fired one handed in a panic without aiming at that door as claimed by Oscar, or do they look aimed and directed?.
Because for my money if you fired 4 times in terror without thinking and without aiming, those bullets are going all over the place.

 

[shane13]

Speculation On Oscar's Neighbor to Be? [See comments therein]

Amputee gets life sentence for murder

"...He shot his wife six times.

Jordaan said the man earlier denied the charges against him. But when he gave evidence in mitigation, he changed his version completely.

“But still, he denied intimidating Cynthia. He clearly was not open enough because some of the evidence was disputed by the State,” Jordaan said.

He said the shooting happened after his wife hugged the young man.

“After the young man left, she started insulting him for nearly two hours, saying she did not want him anymore and that she was not returning to his house.

“That broke his heart. He then fetched a firearm from under the seat of his bakkie and shot at her.”

Jordaan sentenced Sengwane to three years for intimidation, 15 years for possession of an unlicensed firearm, three years for possession of ammunition, and life for murder..."

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/amputee-gets-life-sentence-for-murder-1.1677840

 

[Really?]

Honest!!??? honest??!! You've got to be joking. Stupid or arrogant or insightless - yes! A person with no appropriate qualifications or scientific rigour paid as a scientific expert to present a layman's opinion.

I'm amazed that Roux or members of his team employed this man, let alone allowed him to take the stand and undermine their case.

BBM:.....need I say more.....but given his contradictions to OP's version....a pseudo expert was a benefit to the state....moo

 

[TipDog]

Not necessarily. I have seen drunk people use a chain saw, drive a car, use a table saw, pound nails, with no problem. I haven't seen them shoot a gun, but I think it could be done based on my other observations.

He didn't have to be "falling down drunk" to have his judgement impaired.

All MOO, of course!

Still don't see it. Even if he'd had a few drinks, once the rage fueled adrenaline took over, it would likely neutralize the effects - unless he was falling down drunk.

Although, I can't say that a drink or two wasn't involved, so it can't be entirely ruled out either, I suppose. Of course, he tested negative the next day, so it's not considered a factor in court.

 

[soozieqtips]

Scared of what? Wood moving?
There was no reasonable evidence of any threat to warrant OP's fear and actions EVEN IN his own version.
It is so improbable that I put it to you, that is simply cannot be true. Don't you agree?

It definitely cannot reasonably be true... am I right?

 

[katydid23]

It is? why?

For one thing, OP himself said he was afraid of being hit by ricocheted bullets. Maybe that is why he shot at an angle and not head on towards the door.

 

[Val1]

It was a typo. Asked and answered.

I missed that, was it Dixon's typo and is there a link? Do you recall the actual height of the model on his knees as shown in the photo?

 

[steveml]

I missed that, was it Dixon's typo and is there a link? Do you recall the actual height of the model on his knees as shown in the photo?

It was my typo. I'll try and find the details when I get a mo.

 

[TipDog]

Scared of what? Wood moving?
There was no reasonable evidence of any threat to warrant OP's fear and actions EVEN IN his own version.
It is so improbable that I put it to you, that is simply cannot be true. Don't you agree?

It must have been the magazine rack opening the door that caused him to involuntarily shoot the gun in sheer terror.

 

[Hatfield]

BBM. I'm from S.A. and this is not true. There are a number of South Africans who want O.P. to get off because they pity him. There are also few who believe him to be innocent. But he is not, by any means, most South Africans' hero. That would be Nelson Mandela.

Thanks for clearing this up from someone who lives there. It was a bad assumption on my part to assume his homeland would mostly all be for him.

I assumed that everyone who was cheering in the room next to him had to be cheering for OP. I cannot imagine that people would cheer for the prosecutions side. Usually the prosecution side of things is a little more subdued than the defense side because the defense side has so much more riding on it. So when I heard there was loud cheering I automatically assumed that crowd had to be for OP. It must be a wild crowd in that room next to the courthouse. I would like to be there to witness it. :floorlaugh:

 

[patCee]

The other deep bruises on RS' back created some interest for Nel, and Dixon also had something to say about them. I seem to remember someone on here (I think) mentioning air gun pellet marks. The marks seemed to be explained away. But could they have something to do with the 5th cartridge found in the toilet bowl? IIRC the cartridge was said to be different from the ones that killed RS. It couldn't have been from the air gun with silencer in some of the pics, as they would have tested that. Curiouser and Curiouser.......

 

[Clutchbag]

Not necessarily. I have seen drunk people use a chain saw, drive a car, use a table saw, pound nails, with no problem. I haven't seen them shoot a gun, but I think it could be done based on my other observations.

He didn't have to be "falling down drunk" to have his judgement impaired.

All MOO, of course!

ETA: TipDog, I think this is the first time I have disagreed with any of your extremely well thought out posts.

Just a note to say that in his testimony he said there was a strict no alcohol regime in his training months and not until sept/oct of a year on a break would he have a drink

Having said that his friend Matk Batchelor is on video saying he did have drinking bouts but Im unsure of the context? I will see if I can locate the video and edit to add in this post,

I agree with you alcohol can exacerbate, but will never turn a non killer into a killer if you see what I mean

Eta here it is, apologies, the presenter mentions drink but not his ex rugby mate, who just mentions he had a "trip switch"
(Right at the beginning more or less)


[video=youtube;C4KHj3gjCBU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4KHj3gjCBU&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]

 

[jay-jay]

I know, and we never will have. It is just my theory.

I'm almost certain of it, too.

 

[shane13]

For one thing, OP himself said he was afraid of being hit by ricocheted bullets. Maybe that is why he shot at an angle and not head on towards the door.

Sad but true, the allegedly panic-stricken OP knows his physics and fears a perependicular shot might possibly reflect drectly back to him.

 

[TrueDetective]

It definitely cannot reasonably be true... am I right?

This is now about her integrity. I am testing her integrity! What do you say about that?

 

[patCee]

I missed that, was it Dixon's typo and is there a link? Do you recall the actual height of the model on his knees as shown in the photo?

It was said there was 20cm difference to OP, if that's any help. In other words, a lot.