Trial Discussion Thread #3 - 14.03.08-09, Weekend

[Carol70]

:silly:


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Hahaha :truce:

 

[Linda7NJ]

Is anyone having issues with refreshing the page?


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[Linda7NJ]

Quick question for those watching everyday. Is everyone always so respectful and kind?
I was really impressed and intrigued by the level or respect i saw the little bit I watched.

I prefer arrogant/witty and shark like ( like Juan & Geoffrey Feiger & Jeff Aston.


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[shane13]

I made a post a few days ago on the logical falacy of the coming tape of Oscar screaming like a woman --when in the approprate state of mind as DT alleges. [j/k]

Will it be something like this?: See at 1:40
[video=youtube;l6BlH-ZC5P0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6BlH-ZC5P0[/video]

To reiterate re the alleged coming tape of a paniced oscar screaming like a woman.
DT alleges that while OScar may sound like a man when screaming in an enraged state, when he is in a panic state he then screams sounding like a woman.

The logical problem is that if they are trying to duplicate this say ina soundrooom, unless they happen to have a very good actor to surprise Oscar, it is clear there is no genuine panic.
Sounds sad and desperate.

 

[minor4th]

One of the reasons the state put up the witness Kevin Larena.. * a darling * was to show that Oscar is happy to fire a gun when NOT angry.. merely at whim.. but not happy to take responsibility for it when confronted with the act of it.

Ditto Samantha.. her testimony tells us Oscar fired a gun out of spite and anger at being directed by the police who noticed the gun in the back seat after pulling Darrin up for speeding.

so the state has provided witnesses as to Oscars varied reasons when he feels like pulling that trigger.. not all connected with him feeling threatened by a fierce and murderous intruder in the dark of night.

I find it hard to believe that Oscar was 'feeling threatened' by the delivery of Kevins plate of Pasta, in the restaurant at Friday lunchtime.. unless he has an undiagnosed fear of waiters bearing Pasta.

I don't think Kevin's testimony really shows that Oscar is willing to fire a gun when he is not angry. There's no question it was an accidental discharge of the gun.

 

[Trooper]

I made a post a few days ago on the logical falacy of the coming tape of Oscar screaming like a woman --when in the approprate state of mind as DT alleges. [j/k]

Will it be something like this?
To reiterate re the alleged coming tape of a paniced oscar screaming like a woman.
DT alleges that while OScar may sound like a man when screaming in an enraged state, when he is in a panic state he then screams sounding like a woman.

The logical problem is that if they are trying to duplicate this say ina soundrooom, unless they happen to have a very good actor to surprise Oscar, it is clear there is no genuine panic.
Sounds sad and desperate.

:drumroll::winner:

 

[Carol70]

Minor, thanks for the awesome timeline but I just want to state it's NOT known what happend with the netcare call...it was me who surmised they may have told him to bring her in if he called the facility, he may have called the netcare emergency line too..all we know of that is that a call was placed to netcare, not what was said etc, if anything.

Just to be clear, netcare is a private hospital group who also have their own private ambulance service. If the ambulances were detained elsewhere, he MAY have been told it would be quicker to bring her in. I actually don't know.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I find his excuse that he believed it was an intruder laughable from the start. The FIRST thing anyone would do in that situation is check on the person sharing their bed. IMO it falls apart right there for me.


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[Trooper]

I don't think Kevin's testimony really shows that Oscar is willing to fire a gun when he is not angry. There's no question it was an accidental discharge of the gun.

There are plenty of questions as to whether it was accidental or not..

Oscar was sorry he fired it, but it isnt established it was accidental. what makes you so sure it was?? I merely enquire.

he had to release the safety catch , thats just one thing that precludes it being an accident.. he knew there was a bullet in it, * darrin.. ' it's one up'..


where does accident over rule deliberate firing?

 

[Carol70]

Is anyone having issues with refreshing the page?


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No, but I'm posting in the future..my time has gone all weird. It's 9.20am here and my posts are showing an hour ahead lol...guess they are having small glitches.

 

[Madeleine74]

So far, I believe the evidence has not proven premeditation or even come close.

If it had, the state could have rested their case on Friday. We're probably only 1/10 the way through.

 

[Trooper]

I find his excuse that he believed it was an intruder laughable from the start. The FIRST thing anyone would do in that situation is check on the person sharing their bed. IMO it falls apart right there for me.


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I'm with you, Linda.. it falls apart from me from the get go.. too much embroidery. Far too much of the dicey explanations that dont fit in with the fans, ( first one, now 2 ) the blinds, the curtains, too much embellishment about his state of mind... too too much expectation that me , you and the judges, and the public will suspend their normal rationale and go along with this irrational and absurd and of course , murderous, tale.

 

[shane13]

No, but I'm posting in the future..my time has gone all weird. It's 9.20am here and my posts are showing an hour ahead lol...guess they are having small glitches.

You time traveler you!

Explanation: Clocks changed an hour in USA. maybe there too?

 

[Really?]

.

Agreed! I still don't know where it fits in that Oscar went downstairs, opened his front door, went out and started his car, opened the car door and ran back up to get Reeva before security & Dr. Stipp et al arrived at his door.

Was he really going to take her to his car and only put her down on the floor because all of those people showed up at his door?

.

I think leaving the complex would be on cctv.......so he would have been caught on it driving her car. moo

 

[shane13]

There are plenty of questions as to whether it was accidental or not..

Oscar was sorry he fired it, but it isnt established it was accidental. what makes you so sure it was?? I merely enquire.

he had to release the safety catch , thats just one thing that precludes it being an accident.. he knew there was a bullet in it, * darrin.. ' it's one up'..


where does accident over rule deliberate firing?

With you here Trooper lady.

Safety needed to be released, trigger needed to be pulled.
Did it need to be cocked? Maybe not if it was "one up."

So at least 2 actions needed before it could be fired.
Maybe ballistics or other expert will later testify on DF's gun.

Highly unlikely it was an accident.
Rather another of many incidents indicating schadenfreude or sadism or other strangeness in Oscar.

 

[Really?]

Well, let me clarify - he didn't tailor his account based on witness statements because he didn't have any yet. It's possible he thought about what happened and made up an account in anticipation to what witnesses might say.

I agree that it's very confusing the way they present evidence, intermingled with argument and commentary and "I put it to you" and so forth. Very frustrating indeed.

BBM :floorlaugh:

 

[MeeBee]

There are plenty of questions as to whether it was accidental or not..

Oscar was sorry he fired it, but it isnt established it was accidental. what makes you so sure it was?? I merely enquire.

he had to release the safety catch , thats just one thing that precludes it being an accident.. he knew there was a bullet in it, * darrin.. ' it's one up'..


where does accident over rule deliberate firing?

I too fail to see how there's no question it was an accident. There is absolutely no way to know for sure. I find that short sighted. Just because Oscar says it was an accident doesn't mean it was. I find it more unlikely that it was an accident. Do guns really just go off? That's rather inconvenient for Oscar, a man who has demonstrated quite an obsession with guns. So, no, there's not "no question" that it was an accident.

 

[Trooper]

Originally Posted by kittychi
.

Agreed! I still don't know where it fits in that Oscar went downstairs, opened his front door, went out and started his car, opened the car door and ran back up to get Reeva before security & Dr. Stipp et al arrived at his door.

Was he really going to take her to his car and only put her down on the floor because all of those people showed up at his door?

oh boy.. the 64 million dollar question, in spades...

Ive tried to fit in Standar actually starting up Oscars car, opening the doors etc helping , sort of.. it cant be Oscar , because he only came down stairs the once, with Reeva dying in his arms.. he says..

so if Oscars story is correct, someone else started up his vehicle and opened the doors and then left the vehicle, running and open and then what?? disappeared?? evaporated? or it was Standar *( who arrived first before Pieter Baba and then Stipp.).

was it Standars wife who did it?? * wife or daughter, I cant distinguish,,

I dont think one can get a remote instrument that actually opens, starts and then leaves your car running from upstairs.. thats a big stretch. .if there was one I would have one.. I love gadgets like that, and have a collection of astonishingly stupid stuff that promises things like that.


So who did that?? and when?? and why??


I'm with Shane on this little episode.. . its connotations , if nothing else. what was Oscar planning to do with Reevas body, before he was confronted with two unexpected arrivals, Baba and Stipp.? .... he didnt expect Baba, he told Baba 'security, everythings fine'. Stipp came entirely out of left field for Oscar. totally unexpected.

 

[Trooper]

Originally Posted by kittychi
.

Agreed! I still don't know where it fits in that Oscar went downstairs, opened his front door, went out and started his car, opened the car door and ran back up to get Reeva before security & Dr. Stipp et al arrived at his door.

Was he really going to take her to his car and only put her down on the floor because all of those people showed up at his door?

From Oscars affidavit, and Bail Hearing statement, no mention is made of this event.

I havent seen Standar 's ( head of security , and first man on the scene ) statement.. maybe he or his wife, lets call her his wife for the moment, it was either Mrs or MZ Standar who arrived, and there for by a split second was the second person on the scene.. either one of them could have done the car starting business but, why wouldnt they take Reeva in their car?? Surely, SURELY they wouldnt have expected OSCAR to do the driving?? under these circumstances?? Stipp clearly stated Oscar was distraught, so distraught he thought he might be going upstairs to kill himself. Stipp , as a first procedue tried to ascertain where the gun was and who had it before he did anything .

 

[shane13]

yes Dr. Stipp is the real hero with this.
All who told police what they heard are also to some extent.
(Read the Kitty Genovese story in nYC if you don't know it, as far as how commonly most will not want to get invoved. Murder of Kitty Genovese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )

Even Mr Baba is a hero for not accepting Oscar's "Everything is fine." He came across as very nervous, but when the time came he confronted Pistorius. We will have to see what Stander will say. He seemed to be cooperating with Oscar in some way, and did not call for help either until Dr. Stipp directed someone to call an ambulance. Only then did Stander tell Baba to call.

In Oscar's defense, maybe he was on his way to take Reeva to the hospital.
As with many things, we must deal with probabilities.

Alas, all the evidence indicates the mostly likely thing, is that w.o. the intervention of Dr. Stipp, as another poster wrote when I queried people to state the lrobable outcomes, we would/might merely have a missing person's thread for Reeva and no body alas.