Trial Discussion Thread #30

[Really?]

Oscar-speak :floorlaugh:

I like that.

Have you folk made a list yet? Anywhere I can see it - back posts?

I wish I had found this site whilst he was on the stand. I can imagine some of the comments.

I know my husband has started dabbling in Oscar speak to irritate me.....

Anything I ask gets a, "I don't remember M'lady".

Hahahahaha ...and I 'put it to my husband' now .

Yes , there are many back pages here. Under the trial heading in forums, just chose the OP cat and all threads are there.

 

[liesbeth]

I was robbed by gunpoint in the 70's in a convenience store( 7-11 type) and I remember everything to this day. It was 3 pmish and as soon as I seen the gun, my 1st thought was, OMG I have to get him out of the store before the kids come in ( school kids ). The only time I seen his face was when he walked toward the counter, after I seen the gun I never looked at his face again. I was terrified he heard my manager( was in the back) open the freezer door, I heard it. I didn't pull the $10 bill from under the $20 bills that activated the camera, was afraid he would notice it. He pulled the money out and activated it, but the sunglass case blocked the view. And when he came in he asked where the kotex's where. I remember everthing and I know I was in shock. The only thing about him I could remember was he was wearing a purple wifebeater top.

I'm sad that you had to go through something like that. Thank you for sharing your experience with us, Irisha.

 

[Feynman]

Anyone who has ever been in a car accident or highjacked, attacked or had a gun in their face will tell you that your mind works quite clearly while this is happening to you.

It's as if you're in a bubble and time slows down and you can think and you can reason. And afterwards your memories of the actual event is crystal clear like a slo-mo video.

Then, when it is over, the feelings happen. Terror and fear and the shakes. You feel sick. And your memories of what happens during this stage are vague.

That is why I can't believe OP's description of that night. It doesn't ring true. If he was honest in describing his actions that night, he would have said that he was in "combat mode" and that he was thinking and reasoning before he shot Reeva.

Anyone? I doubt that. For example, I was robbed at gunpoint in Chicago. I was pretty calm and clear-headed, offered up my wallet, and said let's stay cool here guys (there were two of them). But when it was over, there was no "Terror and fear and the shakes." At all. I just figured I was unlucky, bad shake of the dice, crime in Chicago exists, was glad I was unharmed, wondered what I could have done to prevent it (answer: nothing) and went on to enjoy the evening at the blues bar (with my friends gladly paying my way). The hassle of getting my credit cards and driver's license etc straightened out occurred to me at about the third song. Great blues band.

I would expect reactions in such an incident would vary all over the place. You take a volatile erratic guy like OP, with his weird phobias and bad temper, who knows what you would get?

 

[Carmelita]

BIB. Indeed! And he would have had to have retreated to the toilet when he heard OP yell at him, "Get the f*** out of my house!!" And since he retreated to the toilet. OP, having him cornered and aiming his gun right at the door he was hiding behind, had a responsibility to not kill him. Any reasonable person of intelligence and responsibility would not shoot. But I accept that you would.

I didn't say that I would shoot under the circumstance which Oscar shot. I said that I would shoot an intruder that was coming our of my bathroom at 3 am.

Same situation for me, I would know 100% not assume, believe, feel as if I knew where my loved one was I would know. I would then tell the intruder that I had a gun pointed at the door and if I heard movement I would fire, I would have called 911 or had my loved one call 911. If the intruder were to be so aggressive as to try to leave the bathroom and enter further into my home I would with clear conscience defend myself and my loved one.

 

[TipDog]

I was not comparing Amanda to Oscar I was simply giving an example of a person in terror acting and thinking rationally.

Amanda was in terror during her escape she has stated so and those first on the scene have stated so.

I never said that Oscar could not understand the ramifications of firing his weapon into the toilet.

Oscar has never even said that he did not understand the ramifications of firing his weapon. Due to his incompetence in communicating he has indicated that he never meant to kill anyone even an intruder. That is interpreted by me to mean he wised that even if it had been an intruder in his home he had no blood lust simply a desire for him and Reeva to stay alive. He wished he were never put in the position to fire into the toilet where he believed an intruder was located.

BIB 1

Amanda stated that she felt terrified after being rescued and could think back on and describe not only her escape but her ordeal. She was describing her feelings after the fact. Those who were first on scene were describing her after she'd been rescued. All of this was subjective and past tense. Regardless, and no disrespect, this is not a good example as there is simply no correlation to OP's circumstances and this trial's context.

BIB 2

All the more reason to doubt his testimony that he, in a state of terror, shot without conscious thought.

 

[james83]

True point. I do not know what state of mind Oscar was in. I should have said if Oscar's version of the evens is true at it's core then he has given testimony that he was not in the state of mind to ask politely, Reeva are you in the loo, he was in a state of terror and he had already determined erroneously that it could not be here in the toilet.

Do you not see the contradictions?, i'm in a state of terror but i'm going to go walking on my stumps down into the darkness to what i believe is an armed intruder, on my way i'm going to shout at the top of my voice to give away my position.
If there was an armed intruder and this situation played out 100 times, every single time Oscar would have ended up dead and god knows what would have happened to Reeva.
It sound's untrue because it is, IMO.

 

[Carmelita]

And I am off for a bit.

 

[Viper]

Pistorius has been described as someone who overcame his disability - but this was with prosthesis (and specially fitted blades). Without them, I would think he is disabled, no?

Hey TipDog! Hope you are having a great evening!

No, OP is not disabled without his prosthetics. He ran after and executed an intruder in his bathroom for crying out loud! LOL!!! He has full mobility on his stumps.

His prosthetics enhance his mobility during everyday life, and his cheeta legs enhance his ability to run very fast. So OP does not have a disability, he has said as much many times.

 

[Val1]

actually, Dixon had that same effect on me as Hansie Cronje's dwarf preacher... sometimes in a trial the most improbable figures flit across it, always serious and earnest and even sincere but always earnestly and sincerely insane..

Yet his tweets seemed to indicate that he was fully aware of what his testimony would do, methinks his misadventures were deliberate and used to their full potential as deflectors. Just see how quickly the media focus went from OP to Dixon.

 

[lithgow1]

Where I am in Europe is much the same as you Bobbie - not a great deal of interest from others other than me, but a general consensus that he's guilty of knowingly killing her. I'm Aussie too, but living o/s. A couple of friends back home are following it a bit and they, and others with just a 'Yes' or 'No' opinion, are 100% on guilty. In fact I don't think I've heard a single person give his version any credence at all. It was a hard to swallow story right from the start and it's not got any better.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the media attitude and coverage with this? I find Robyn Curnow on CNN pretty hard to watch - right from the start to seemed to 'side' with him. Kelly Phelps I find even worse. She just will not say a bad word against him, or none that I've seen. She felt OP performed well on the stand and that the hapless and hopeless Mr Dixon was a part of Roux's strategy, babbling on post-cross about him laying a broad foundation for the expert testimony to follow and never once acknowledging Nel's demolition job on any foundation he tried to lay. So yes, I find those two very painful. Phelps even gets me worried that maybe Roger Dixon was indeed part of some brilliant strategy but that the foundation was for some future 'ineffective counsel' move. I get nervous like that.

 

[james83]

I didn't say that I would shoot under the circumstance which Oscar shot. I said that I would shoot an intruder that was coming our of my bathroom at 3 am.

Same situation for me, I would know 100% not assume, believe, feel as if I knew where my loved one was I would know. I would then tell the intruder that I had a gun pointed at the door and if I heard movement I would fire, I would have called 911 or had my loved one call 911. If the intruder were to be so aggressive as to try to leave the bathroom and enter further into my home I would with clear conscience defend myself and my loved one.

And that is 100% the right thing to do.

 

[TipDog]

Seriously?
Make a recording?
Why doesn't Oscar just scream like a woman in court?

He just may if found guilty on any of the charges. Not exactly the kind of guy to not show his emotions when he doesn't get his way.

 

[molly333]

Question for molly333

Do tell, given the exact situation Reeva and OP were in (supposed intruder), just WHAT would you have done?

If I were Reeva, I would lock myself in the bathroom and wait quietly for the all clear from my boyfriend. I would call the police, though, if I could--if I had a telephone that worked.

 

[liesbeth]

The door was locked from the inside so an intruder would not need to break the door down to enter into the next room. Oscar would not have known whether the door was locked or unlocked.

Objectively on his stumps he would have had a more difficult time retreating than an able bodied man. No legs from below the knees down is a pretty severe circumstance IMO.

We only have OP's word that the door was locked from the inside.

And we only have his word that he didn't know the door was locked.

Besides any reasonable amputee fearing for his life would have a) put on his legs so as not to feel so vulnerable, b) switched on lights for the same reason, c) checked for an escape route and d) asked/yelled "Who's there?"

The point is that Oscar assumed on hearing a noise that a) it was an intruder, b) the intruder was armed c) the intruder was about to attack him. Most important of all, to my mind, is that he assumed that it wasn't Reeva in the toilet without ever asking if it was her or knowing where she was.

 

[weeeva]

How much more clear cut do you want the evidence?

4 Bullets. Designed to kill, not injure. Small cubicle. Bang......bang bang bang.

You think he should walk free?

And you feel Shrien is a victim as well?

Surely you jest?

I have never said he should walk free. Nor have I said that Dewani is a victim.

 

[Val1]

Hi Shane. Hey remember though that there are two safes in OPs house, one upstairs in the closet and one downstairs in the kitchen. Botha closed off the staircase to only forensics. Oldwage, Carl, and the locksmith were allowed in the kitchen to open that safe. Botha was careful to keep that group away from the crime scene - upstairs.

Here is a link, use edit, find, find and the word kitchen:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/blog/2013/feb/20/oscar-pistorius-bail-hearing-day-two-live-coverage

Re the previous post about the air rifle, can they not use projectiles other than pellets? Do you know if there's evidence as to what kind of ammo was in the air rifle?

Re these 2 safes, weren't those cartridges on the left behind the white fabric in the safe with OP's Olympic medals? I don't recall seeing any pics of the kitchen safe, just the one that was hidden behind clothes in the bedroom closet.

 

[Really?]

Do I detect a hint of bias regarding the Dewani trial which has not even started yet?

I haven't seen any.....or maybe I should just say I am not sure, miLady.

Not that I can recall.

If I said that.... it was not me.

 

[jay-jay]

The door was locked from the inside so an intruder would not need to break the door down to enter into the next room. Oscar would not have known whether the door was locked or unlocked.

Objectively on his stumps he would have had a more difficult time retreating than an able bodied man. No legs from below the knees down is a pretty severe circumstance IMO.

In which case, why did he enter the bathroom fully? He had no need to and by doing so, he was putting himself in an enormous amount of danger had it actually have been an intruder, because they may well have opened the toilet door and shot him first. In reality, OP would've stayed just at the entrance to the bathroom and used the RH wall as some sort of protection/shield and then shot from there .. he would not have gone wandering into the middle of the bathroom on his stumps and expose himself like that and the only reason why he did so was because there was no actual threat to him behind that toilet door.

 

[soozieqtips]

Hey TipDog! Hope you are having a great evening!

No, OP is not disabled without his prosthetics. He ran after and executed an intruder in his bathroom for crying out loud! LOL!!! He has full mobility on his stumps.

His prosthetics enhance his mobility during everyday life, and his cheeta legs enhance his ability to run very fast. So OP does not have a disability, he has said as much many times.

Hey, did you notice that at first he said he had 'mobility' on his stumps, then later in his affidavit it became 'limited mobility' and then on the stand, it became 'extremely limited mobility'. I imagine at that rate of decreasing mobility he must now have 'no mobility' at all.

 

[TipDog]

And I am off for a bit.

Bye Carmelita. Thank you for coming on and giving your opinions. And have a nice night (?).