Trial Discussion Thread #30

[kittychi]

JMO
I have always felt OP drank more alcohol that night which helped make him madder.

I know its not always true but I have seen basically two kinds of people when drinking. The mean drunk and the happy drunk. I suspect OP is more of the mean drunk.

In high school I knew people that would say they wanted to go get drunk and get into a fight. Like that was their plan. They enjoyed it. It was Crazy.

BBM: I have been saying this since Day 1 too. No way to prove it, but it would explain an exaggerated rage and extremely poor judgement.

 

[shane13]

Anyone have the exact time Oscar was arrested and led from his home?
TIA

 

[Really?]

How did OP reasonably verify Reeva was in the bed with a 1- way conversation? IMO , he had no reason to reasonably believe that intruders were in the bathroom.

Exactly. Pulse he sad he whispered in a low tone for her to 'get down'.

Where? Under the covers? All this while a possible ( in OP's version) a gun battle will ensue. Utterly rediculous.

 

[jay-jay]

I am a big fan of behavioral sciences you will not find a single reputable source that will say that all people under a certain situation will respond in the same manner. Just think of the wide range of human personalities.

You will find statistics and norms but not an "always" humanity does not have a collective specific behavioral response to a fluid situation.

I'm sorry but you are wrong. People do react and behave in certain ways in certain situations .. and that is why we have experts in fields such as crowd management (via prediction of human behaviour), and also body language experts (because humans behave in certain standard ways they don't even realise they are doing and have no control over*). Even in the situation that Reeva was in can be accurately predicted, because it's what animals do when they are threatened .. i.e. they curl up and protect their main organs in the torso, and that's exactly what she did when she fell from the hit to the hip, she didn't put her hands to her hip as you might think she would, but instead she clasped her head and went into a fetal/protective position.

How do you think that people like magicians manage astonishing tricks? It's because of a standard way in which people behave, and a good magician will tap into that.

Abusers also behave in standard ways, too .. like I keep saying about the textbook stuff .. there are so many standard behaviours when it comes to the way they act and the things they say, it always feels to me as if they've all been issued with the same manual.

* and there will no doubt be one or two of these in court watching OP's body language .. (and it won't be all the throwing up and crying they will be looking for, either).

 

[Giles]

BIB. OP is not disabled. I have asked you before to tell me what OP is not able to do, you have not responded. Others have, they say he is unable to tell the truth.

Slightly sickened by this comment!

 

[Jake18]

From the following link:
"The bullets shattered her right upper arm, and the shot to her head incapacitated her immediately. The hip wound, Saayman said, could have been fatal. With no blood found in her lungs, Saayman surmised that Steenkamp died after a few breaths."

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-N...-autopsy-results/5291394463275/#ixzz2zWkeShcV

That just means she didn't breathe. They're not a great news source and they could well have confused never breathing again with immediate death. Personally I'll go with 'Pathologist says that head injury would have been incapacitating but she would not have necessarily died straight away". Especially given the pale heart muscle.

 

[james83]

How did OP reasonably verify Reeva was in the bed with a 1- way conversation? IMO , he had no reason to reasonably believe that intruders were in the bathroom.

Exactly, when he didnt get a reply or hear any movement from Reeva that would have automatically made him speak to her again, Oscar seems to go against every single aspect of human nature, funny that.

 

[lithgow1]

How did OP reasonably verify Reeva was in the bed with a 1- way conversation? IMO , he had no reason to reasonably believe that intruders were in the bathroom.

Even if one accepts his 'version' as essentially true, which I don't, his thoughts and actions within that 'version' should see him facing a long prison sentence - nothing he did could be said to be reasonable.

It can be difficult to debate this case: you find yourself thinking about fans and balconies and whispers and have to keep reminding yourself that that is all a fiction. Thank goodness for those photos of the bedroom - the placement of the fans and the duvet are quite compelling evidence in undermining his tall tale IMO.

 

[Carmelita]

In which case, why did he enter the bathroom fully? He had no need to and by doing so, he was putting himself in an enormous amount of danger had it actually have been an intruder, because they may well have opened the toilet door and shot him first. In reality, OP would've stayed just at the entrance to the bathroom and used the RH wall as some sort of protection/shield and then shot from there .. he would not have gone wandering into the middle of the bathroom on his stumps and expose himself like that and the only reason why he did so was because there was no actual threat to him behind that toilet door.

I don’t know how to do the multiple quote thing here jay jay so this is the best I can do.


Your post was a response to my statement that Oscar would have had a more difficult time fleeing down a flight of stairs on his stumps than an able bodied man would have.


My response which is unclear to you

That is speculation and I hardly think Oscar would have not shot the hell out of an intruder before the intruder realized that they had intruded into the wrong house.

To clarify my response I think Oscar has demonstrated that he is a fighter and would not have taken flight. He could have felt he had a better chance armed with his 9mm than he did fleeing on his stumps. If there had been an intruder in the house I don’t find it unusual at all that Oscar would have hunted the intruder down, and shot the hell out of him, even on his stumps or prosthetics, he was going to be in the race not retreating or on the side lives. That is simply who Oscar is.

I hope that clarifies it for you and my apologies for a sloppy answer.

 

[jay-jay]

If my husband didnt know it was me, yes, of course, I'd expect him to be let off. If he was whooping it up with a young thing shortly after, that would be because I'm old lol. The players in this case are young and beautiful. Killing someone to be with someone younger and more beautiful is not an issue. jmo

It's totally beside the point, as well.

 

[Carmelita]

How did OP reasonably verify Reeva was in the bed with a 1- way conversation? IMO , he had no reason to reasonably believe that intruders were in the bathroom.

I don't believe that Oscar reasonably verified that Reeva was in bed, I have repeatedly said that I do not believe Oscar behaved reasonably. I said that Oscar believed that he verified that Reeva was in bed through his faulty reasoning. I do not know what credence the judge will give to Oscars claim that he believed without a doubt that Reeva was in bed.

 

[fox1lady]

Exactly, when he didnt get a reply or hear any movement from Reeva that would have automatically made him speak to her again, Oscar seems to go against every single aspect of human nature, funny that.

Or assumed she'd gone back to sleep in which case he surely would have shook her to wake her up... beggars belief!

 

[Lochlynsmom]

I don’t know how to do the multiple quote thing here jay jay so this is the best I can do.


Your post was a response to my statement that Oscar would have had a more difficult time fleeing down a flight of stairs on his stumps than an able bodied man would have.


My response which is unclear to you

That is speculation and I hardly think Oscar would have not shot the hell out of an intruder before the intruder realized that they had intruded into the wrong house.

To clarify my response I think Oscar has demonstrated that he is a fighter and would not have taken flight. He could have felt he had a better chance armed with his 9mm than he did fleeing on his stumps. If there had been an intruder in the house I don’t find it unusual at all that Oscar would have hunted the intruder down, and shot the hell out of him, even on his stumps or prosthetics, he was going to be in the race not retreating or on the side lives. That is simply who Oscar is.

I hope that clarifies it for you and my apologies for a sloppy answer.

So that's pretty much murder right there....

 

[jay-jay]

Some say he has but not verified - some girl still studying university.

She's a paramedic .. Leah Skye Malan http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscar-finds-new-love/ I've got no problem with people whose partners die in tragic circumstances and they find love and companionship again fairly soon after, but not when the person is on bail awaiting a trial for murdering their previous girlfriend .. I find it incredibly odd that someone would even entertain having another girlfriend in those circumstances, even if just out of respect for Reeva .. in fact I think it's pretty sick.

 

[Trooper]

So that's pretty much murder right there....

:winner:

 

[lithgow1]

She's a paramedic .. Leah Skye Malan http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscar-finds-new-love/ I've got no problem with people whose partners die in tragic circumstances and they find love and companionship again fairly soon after, but not when the person is on bail awaiting a trial for murdering their previous girlfriend .. I find it incredibly odd that someone would even entertain having another girlfriend in those circumstances, even if just out of respect for Reeva .. in fact I think it's pretty sick.

Especially given his displays of emotion to try and make the impression he is grieving for the love of his life. Actually I guess he is grieving for the love of his life, but that's not Reeva Steenkamp.

 

[zoran]

people are saying Reeva should have left after the speeding incident, okay but how about the NEW gf, what is she thinking ??

 

[Giles]

http://www.linguisticstatementanalysis.com/SOTM/Pistorius.pdf

But you are right that "anyone" is a sweeping statement. I'll amend it to "many people."

Thanks for this link - absolutely fascinating!

 

[Carmelita]

I'm sorry but you are wrong. People do react and behave in certain ways in certain situations .. and that is why we have experts in fields such as crowd management (via prediction of human behaviour), and also body language experts (because humans behave in certain standard ways they don't even realise they are doing and have no control over*). Even in the situation that Reeva was in can be accurately predicted, because it's what animals do when they are threatened .. i.e. they curl up and protect their main organs in the torso, and that's exactly what she did when she fell from the hit to the hip, she didn't put her hands to her hip as you might think she would, but instead she clasped her head and went into a fetal/protective position.

How do you think that people like magicians manage astonishing tricks? It's because of a standard way in which people behave, and a good magician will tap into that.

Abusers also behave in standard ways, too .. like I keep saying about the textbook stuff .. there are so many standard behaviours when it comes to the way they act and the things they say, it always feels to me as if they've all been issued with the same manual.

* and there will no doubt be one or two of these in court watching OP's body language .. (and it won't be all the throwing up and crying they will be looking for, either).

Honestly I am mystified that people do not understand that, the norm, statistics, expected behavior, most likely response, universal response do not mean everyone and always. It is that simple. Humans, though predictable are not pre-programmed robots that will respond exactly the same to every situation. We all bring our nature, nurture and experiences to every situation.

There is not a single reputable psychological/psychiatric/behavioral study that will state unequivocally that everyone will respond in the exact same manner to a fluid or static situation. There are reasons it is called “the normal response” and not the “only response” . Even self-preservation is not an absolute universal action that can be expected from every human being.

The branches of study or practice of which you speak recognize this simple truth of the unique human psyche and it is figured in to their assessment of the “whole of humanity”. Study of human behavior is part science (and with brain mapping it is getting more scientific) but mostly it is still an art.

 

[shane13]

people are saying Reeva should have left after the speeding incident, okay but how about the NEW gf, what is she thinking ??

"At least he's no longer armed."