Trial Discussion Thread #30

[Apollo]

Can you imagine the pressure for witnesses to say what the police want them to say when the police are pressuring them to tailor their statements to get a conviction and to provide details that are not really factual?

Do you wonder how Mrs Stipp's statement ended up with a declaration that she saw a person walking in OP's bathroom when she really didn't see that?

Mrs. Stipp should be given credit for correcting her error.
She could have stuck with her statement that she saw a person walking in the bathroom and no one would have known the difference.

She's one of the best witnesses I've ever seen testify.

 

[minor4th]

Mrs. Stipp should be given credit for correcting her error.
She could have stuck with her statement that she saw a person walking in the bathroom and no one would have known the difference.

She's one of the best witnesses I've ever seen testify.

You've missed the point.

 

[Apollo]

You've missed the point.

You apparently missed Mrs. Stipp's explanation of her error. It had nothing to do with the police.

 

[Feynman]

If the defendant was innocent, there would be little need to "plan" a defense.

I'm curious, what kind of law do you practice? Are you a criminal attorney?

Little need to plan a defense? Hmmm ... seven centuries of juridicial thought vs. this statement ... I'll have to think about it a bit.

 

[crasshopper]

I thought I posted this but can't find it now, so I'll post it again.


I'm just wondering, if you have an artery that is still spurting blood, why isn't it spurting blood everywhere from the bathroom to the hallway to the bedroom to the stairs to the downstairs?

Was there just one so called arterial blood spatter in the whole scene?

Something's wrong with that.

Maybe it was the last pump?

Much remains unknown about what really happened we're just trying to connect the dots. Maybe the computer analysis of the spatter was wrong but the lawyers don't feel like arguing about it because it doesn't change the crux of the case, murder or no murder?

But wouldn't you love to know how Dr. Saymaan would or if he could explain the arterial bloodstains, at least in the bedroom.

Maybe she was brain dead for a few minutes before the lack oxygen from not breathing and the lack of perfusion from bleeding- no blood pressure snuffed the last flame. Often testifying medical experts like to keep it as simple as possible, while being honest.

Brain dead-> no breathing, it really doesn't throw anything off and allows for arterial blood in the bedroom. I wonder what the specifities of the brain injury were to exclude this brief variable?

As for the blood loss some of it 'third spaces' so it wouldn't be pooled in the abdomen or other soecific area as earlier postulated.

 

[crasshopper]

BIB I am too! BTW Your previous point about Reeva not breathing but her heart still beating are utter nonsense, given that her heart would have to had functioned without oxygen for 6-20 minutes, and that is impossible.

Actually, that is incorrect. There is enough residual oxygen in your blood to prevent you dying from anoxia, if you're not breathing, for several minutes. Hence why "brain dead" individuals take variable amounts of time to die after the turn the respirator off. Death is not instantaneous when they pull the plug, it takes a while for the heart to stop beating.

In this case exsanguination and poor perfusion from no blood pressure would hasten the anoxia that stops the heart.

 

[crasshopper]

Thank you!

As was the case with Batman, van der Nest (can we just call him Dexter?) has drawn some wrong conclusions. Even though he was ordered to attend the autopsy by his superior, in my estimation that was a first for him and he did not interact by asking pertinent questions of Dr. Saymaan either during or after the autopsy. I say that because the autopsy report concluded that Reeva died nearly instantaneously.

I learned during today's research that a lot of blood spatter analysis is performed by commercially available computer systems and later reviewed by a tech. It would be interesting to know what happened in this case.


In medicine, EKG's are read by computer as well, but as cardiology fellows know, they have to personally review stacks and stacks of them to confirm the results/ double check.

 

[crasshopper]

There is so much residual oxygen that can sustain you that they have changed CPR recommendations for lay people so that you just keep doing the compressions after you check the airway and forget the mouth to mouth part.

Little tidbit, just recertified

 

[Viper]

Actually, that is incorrect. There is enough residual oxygen in your blood to prevent you dying from anoxia, if you're not breathing, for several minutes. Hence why "brain dead" individuals take variable amounts of time to die after the turn the respirator off. Death is not instantaneous when they pull the plug, it takes a while for the heart to stop beating.

In this case exsanguination and poor perfusion from no blood pressure would hasten the anoxia that stops the heart.

Exsanguination? Bleeding to death? How much blood did you see in the WC? And in the bathroom? Are there reports of Dr. Saymaan saying that there was massive internal bleeding? Did the severed arm have complete hemostasis?

Do you really believe that Dr. Saymaan overlooked exsanguination as a cause of death?

WS has a verification process for healthcare professionals and medical doctors, have you received a notification of how to verify yourself as a real doctor of medicine?

 

[Bazinga]

Just bumping up my post.....

TIA.

Can you imagine the pressure for witnesses to say what the police want them to say when the police are pressuring them to tailor their statements to get a conviction and to provide details that are not really factual?

Do you wonder how Mrs Stipp's statement ended up with a declaration that she saw a person walking in OP's bathroom when she really didn't see that?

Oh for goodness sake.
It was probably a simple mistake? As in - I didn't see that with my eyes my husband told me and I mistook it for my memory until I fully considered it. She did correct it almost immediately.
This is really ridiculous!! It's not like that statement made any difference to the charge or evidence or the outcome or was ever going to. If she was so influenced by police why go and correct it one day later?

 

[crasshopper]

Exsanguination? Bleeding to death? How much blood did you see in the WC? And in the bathroom? Are there reports of Dr. Saymaan saying that there was massive internal bleeding? Did the severed arm have complete hemostasis?

Do you really believe that Dr. Saymaan overlooked exsanguination as a cause of death?

WS has a verification process for healthcare professionals and medical doctors, have you received a notification of how to verify yourself as a real doctor of medicine?

IIRC it was stated that the shot to the hip alone would/ could have led to her death from eventual exsanguination.

I have never mentioned internal bleeding, just third spacing.

I am not going to go through all that verification process in the interest of psting on the two trials I've posted on. I had to do that for work, fingerprints and all. I usually don't reveal my profession because it leads to too many curbsides...and I stated that this was not my specialty.

 

[Jake18]

I learned during today's research that a lot of blood spatter analysis is performed by commercially available computer systems and later reviewed by a tech. It would be interesting to know what happened in this case.


In medicine, EKG's are read by computer as well, but as cardiology fellows know, they have to personally review stacks and stacks of them to confirm the results/ double check.

Lol. Usually with a coffee.

 

[Karmady]

IIRC it was stated that the shot to the hip alone would/ could have led to her death from eventual exsanguination.

I am not going to go through all that verification process in the interest of psting on the two trials I've posted on. I had to do that for work, fingerprints and all. But I went to Hopkins undergrad and Duke for residency and that's all I'm going say about that. WHO are YOU to challenge me? Ignore my posts if thats what suits you. I usually don't reveal I'm a physician because it leads to to many curbsides...

Just wow, I may be misinterpreting but that comes across as pretty insulting...

Don't be insulted. You're not allowed to post your credentials or as a particular type of professional unless you're verified. Otherwise any old anonymous poster on the internet could be given way too much credit

 

[Linda7NJ]

IIRC it was stated that the shot to the hip alone would/ could have led to her death from eventual exsanguination.

I am not going to go through all that verification process in the interest of psting on the two trials I've posted on. I had to do that for work, fingerprints and all. But I went to Hopkins undergrad and Duke for residency and that's all I'm going say about that. WHO are YOU to challenge me? Ignore my posts if thats what suits you. I usually don't reveal I'm a physician because it leads to to many curbsides...and I stated that this was not my specialty.

Just wow, I may be misinterpreting but that comes across as pretty insulting...

Don't be offended.
It's the rules here. Keeps everyone honest.

Otherwise... I'd be running around telling everyone I was a super model



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[crasshopper]

Thank you, I was unaware of that, but to my knowledge I only revealed it once much earlier until this last post because I questioned why netcare would tell him to bring in such a seriously injured patient and not have him call an ambulance or dispatch one themselves.

 

[Jake18]

Exsanguination? Bleeding to death? How much blood did you see in the WC? And in the bathroom? Are there reports of Dr. Saymaan saying that there was massive internal bleeding? Did the severed arm have complete hemostasis?

Do you really believe that Dr. Saymaan overlooked exsanguination as a cause of death?

WS has a verification process for healthcare professionals and medical doctors, have you received a notification of how to verify yourself as a real doctor of medicine?

BIB. He didn't, he said the heart muscle was pale consitent with significant blood loss. If I was writing the death certificate it would say something like Cause of death : 1) Head trauma. Contributing factors : 2 Blood loss.

For me, and I daresay Crasshopper as well, WS is a fun, down time thing to be doing. NOT a serious work related activity. We both, I'm sure, receive sufficient validation of our professional skills in the real world. And neither have us have said "You're wrong because i'm a doctor and you're not".

 

[crasshopper]

Good night and apologies. Personally, even if we disagree, I have until now not taken it personally and do respect everyone's insights and opinions.

 

[Really?]

BIB I am too! BTW Your previous point about Reeva not breathing but her heart still beating are utter nonsense, given that her heart would have to had functioned without oxygen for 6-20 minutes, and that is impossible.

all I know is the heart does still register(?) after the body stops breathing.....it has its own electric supply. I have witnessed this in person unfortunately very recently.flat line.....then beep beep beep....(small ones)...thank goodness my sister in law is a nurse and explained it is the hearts own electric.....hope this makes sense.

 

[molly333]

Thank you, I was unaware of that, but to my knowledge I only revealed it once much earlier until this last post because I questioned why netcare would tell him to bring in such a seriously injured patient and not have him call an ambulance or dispatch one themselves.

Yes, but then again, how professional are these services? I don't think anyone was called to testify or to offer a recording of the call.

I was wondering if you noticed my earlier question. I guess we first have to determine where blood was identified as arterial spatter. I only know of the one case outside the bedroom. Maybe there's more places.

But assuming there is only the one spot, wouldn't you expect to see arterial spurting everywhere--starting in the toilet room, following the track he carried her--the bathroom, the bathroom hallway, the bedroom, the landing, the stairs, etc?

Wouldn't you expect this artery to be spurting blood as long as her heart is beating? And, that spatter to be everywhere?

He claims he laid her down on the bathroom floor after he took her out of the toilet. Wouldn't it be present there?

There didn't seem to be very much blood anywhere, to my mind, and given those massive injuries, which makes me think her heart stopped beating quickly, inside the toilet room.

Brain matter was also outside of her head when she was on the downstairs floor, per Dr. Stipp.

These were very serious injuries.

 

[wb180]

Oh for goodness sake.
It was probably a simple mistake? As in - I didn't see that with my eyes my husband told me and I mistook it for my memory until I fully considered it. She did correct it almost immediately.
This is really ridiculous!! It's not like that statement made any difference to the charge or evidence or the outcome or was ever going to. If she was so influenced by police why go and correct it one day later?

Because some people are really scraping the barrel to discredit her testimony after the shocking performance by OP.