Trial Discussion Thread #31

[Really?]

We don't know how much blood she originally had, how much she lost on the floor or in th toilet and it really doesn't matter VIPER.

....just jumping off a random post..

oy, Reeva is gone. Now all the world has left is the killer OP. Great, right? No.....he is an angry man, a sore loser...a killer.

.. this case...... getting world-wide attention....televised....aired globally ...and... filling up front pages ..needs to set the bar.

a precedent is needed in this post apartheid SA. The privileged need to be held accountable for their actions. moo

:twocents:

 

[K.T]

Samantha Taylor

I find her testimony valid because she was with him in the two years where he was gong through the most amount of pressure.
I seen people post and media call her ‘bitter, or scorned’ or, in a terrible term used by a FM, that she’s a “shrew’ (nasty and completely inappropriate).

Pistorius needed to label Taylor a liar and discredit her testimony - like he did to ev'one - yet by doing so it revealed his antipathy and condescension towards his girlfriends.

She was ‘screamed at in front of others’ in his angry outbursts. Yet at only seventeen/eighteen her older famous boyfriend was: shooting out of moving cars; antagonistic towards police; making his friends lie about shooting in a crowded restaurant and going against her wishes from jealously or egotism to start a physical and legal fight with a rival.

He also said Taylor lied about how long it took him to put on his prosthetics. She stated it could take him about 4minutes. While Pistorius can put his prosthetics on quickly, there are plenty of interviews where he talks about how his legs would “chafe and give him enormous blisters on his stumps”. It seems that in normal situations putting his stump socks on carefully and whatever padding needed could easily take minutes to do rather than seconds he claims.

 

[Really?]

:ufo:

:ufo:

omg..:silly:

 

[Mr Fossil]

I re-post per request earlier.

The Fifth Phone:
The Power of Logic ©Shane13 2013, 2014

First let me say again that this is a form of speculation, and no proof or certainty can be involved by this use of logic. As with a trial you each have to ‘rule’ whether it is likely true within certain bounds.

Follow the steps.

1. Taking evidence from a crime scene is a serious crime itself. It’s punishable by lengthy jail time if caught. Punishable also by disbarment if an atty does it.
2. Whoever took the 5th Phone likely knew that it was a crime with serious jail time a possible result if prosecuted. So why risk it; why take the 5th Phone?
3. Because they had to!
4. Why did they have to?
5. Because it would be worse for them if they did not!
6. What do I mean here? The person or persons who took the 5th phone had already known that they committed a more serious crime, and so faced a more serious charge if they did NOT take the 5th phone which revealed their earlier crime.
7. What could their earlier crime be? Perhaps Oscar called early on and described his assault on Reeva, or maybe she was shot once and there was a long pause. Note a year ago MSM reported a 10-17 minute gap between the 1st and last 3 shots from witnesses. Maybe there was more truth then than now?
8. Oscar may have early on called for advice to someone who then advised him horrifically that he could go to jail for a long time, if there was a living witness. Get it?
9. Anyone (say a sibling or atty) would have to race over there and get the 5th phone because its data records when they were called and possibly even their horrific advice.
10. Those who took the 5th phone had to know that they would likely get away with the crime, because of the deep nature of things.
11. So far borne out by the lack of a criminal charge or even the ordering of an investigation by Pros. and 3 judges.
12. Those in control always think that the public needs a scapegoat so W.O. Hilton Botha—who actually informed the world of crime scene theft a year ago [.38 ammo]—is made the public lapdog so as to divert away from those who took and gave the 5th phone to OIDT—Oscar’s inital defense team. One of whom has remained on with OP’s DT.
13. Once again this is logic and speculation. But now you know why the 5th phone was illegally taken and held for16 days. With—as I have proclaimed—the high probability that its data was altered a year ago. With Pros and judge going along with its data entered into trial, when it should have been disallowed as there is zero chain of custody.
14. The mention/stipulation on commencement of trial by Nel and then Roux, on March 25, and the subsequent excision of the first few minutes of all youtube videos of session 1, shows you how deep and how rotten this one runs. See if any other OP trial day’s Session 1 on youtube starts in mid-testimony of a witness. All others start with everyone standing as the Judge walks in.
15. And now you know why the guilty party had to take the 5th phone from the crime scene! JMO ©2013 Shane13

Are you referring to the start of the second day of Moller's evidence? If so, whilst this is not available on YouTube, it is available elsewhere (e.g. http://www.wildabouttrial.com/one_off/oscar-pistorius-trial-archive/) and I can see nothing untoward in the 'missing' two minutes from when the judge enters. Perhaps I have misunderstood you?

 

[zwiebel]

'The media reports suggesting he (Dr Reggie Perumal) has withdrawn from the defence team are devoid of all truth'.

http://oscarpistorius.com/dr-perumal-remains-a-member-of-the-pistorius-defence-team/

?????

 

[wb180]

'The media reports suggesting he (Dr Reggie Perumal) has withdrawn from the defence team are devoid of all truth'.

http://oscarpistorius.com/dr-perumal-remains-a-member-of-the-pistorius-defence-team/

?????

"Testify" vs. "being part of the defense"?? Play on words...

 

[Cape Town Crim.]

'The media reports suggesting he (Dr Reggie Perumal) has withdrawn from the defence team are devoid of all truth'.

http://oscarpistorius.com/dr-perumal-remains-a-member-of-the-pistorius-defence-team/

?????

He has to stay on the 'DT' due to the agreements he signed I'm guessing, and of course he won't speak on a matter that is 'sub judice' so to speak.

I doubt he will testify - he can't, as even the DT experts who have testified thus far have thrown Dr Perumal's reports 'out' and focused on Saayman's. (Prof Botha and Dixon on the cross)

I believe Dr Perumal's reports might be more damaging than Saayman's as it is very unusual for a DT to ignore it's own forensic pathologist's findings so completely. It's almost as though they are denying his report even exists. Until Gerrie kept reminding them.

I reckon they 'have to say this', in the same way they 'have to say' that Oscar hasn't gone for acting lessons.........

Dr Naidoo (also a very well respected pathologist, seems to be sure this is an ethical decision on Reggie's behalf)

The Oscar PR machine has been in full drive since the adjournment. They are tiresome.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

So why didn't Nel make more of the removal of this vital evidence? Was holding on to the fifth phone illegal as some here have claimed? If so, why weren't charges filed? That would be a much more damning charge than storing .38 ammo in the safe IMO.

I have no idea why charges have not been made . Maybe it is because they couldn't prove who actually took it from the crime scene . There were so many people there he it could have been one of many ,just like with the watches. No one has been formally charged with that at this stage either .
With regard to the ammo it was removed in the presence of a police officer and OP's solicitor so it could not be alleged after that it was taken in an illicit manner,but it was asked to be returned ?

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

On a lighter note, I've been continuing my informal not-very-random or systematic survey of the opinions of the local population regarding OP and the case. I started the survey on the small island where I live, but have now spread my research to the SE Queensland mainland.

Today I surveyed 4 new research subjects over a boozy lunch. Like all previous survey participants, they said: they knew who OP was; they're not following the case; and that OP is obviously guilty. I've added another question to the survey regarding subjects' attitudes to OP during the Olympics. All 4 responses contained 1 or more of the following elements: hadn't warmed to OP at that time; were put off by his cocky attitude; knew OP was competing but didn't follow or care about his athletic performance.

I'm surprised that I haven't found anyone yet who has any interest in OP. Until my survey, I thought that I was one of the very few people in the world who has not idolised OP. Very interesting - maybe it's cultural.

I'll continue to update WSs on my findings, whether interested or not. I'm more than happy for other WSs to join in the surveying.

To be continued....

 

[K.T]

Psychology defense
Dreading whom Pistorius defense team will get on the stand and what they could stay. Defense team psychologists or psychiatrists can be the worst! I think it was Viper who linked to the Oscar Trial interview with a psychologist talking abut an ‘Amygdala hijack’. What the… I seriously doubt that person’s use of loose theory and it’s relevance to Pistorius’ case. Experts can be inexpert whether they are geologists or part of a legal team

I imagine Pistorius psychological expert testimony will try to blanket-blame and pull on emotive strings (disability, boat crash, South Africa, PTSD) to justify his inconsistency and eke out sympathy for suspended or no-jail sentence. Like the generally derided psychologist G. Dick Miller who used “affluenza” to excuse a drunken teenage male killing 4 people.
http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...que_of_the_psychology_of_no_consequences.html
Or when defence teams claim the useful ‘multiple personality insanity’ made them kill:
http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/psychology/multiples/index.html

I think Lisa post about the increasing downward spiral of Pistorius dangerous actions put the timing very clearly: speeding, fighting, shooting, arguments that ‘scared’ Steenkamp over the last months showing an unusual high-stress individual who was rapidly devolving.

 

[Cape Town Crim.]

On a lighter note, I've been continuing my informal not-very-random or systematic survey of the opinions of the local population regarding OP and the case. I started the survey on the small island where I live, but have now spread my research to the SE Queensland mainland.

Today I surveyed 4 new research subjects over a boozy lunch. Like all previous survey participants, they said: they knew who OP was; they're not following the case; and that OP is obviously guilty. I've added another question to the survey regarding subjects' attitudes to OP during the Olympics. All 4 responses contained 1 or more of the following elements: hadn't warmed to OP at that time; were put off by his cocky attitude; knew OP was competing but didn't follow or care about his athletic performance.

I'm surprised that I haven't found anyone yet who has any interest in OP. Until my survey, I thought that I was one of the very few people in the world who has not idolised OP. Very interesting - maybe it's cultural.

I'll continue to update WSs on my findings, whether interested or not. I'm more than happy for other WSs to join in the surveying.

To be continued....

Here in the RS of A he was forced on us.
Most of my admiration was always focused not on the 'arrogant boy child', but on Natalie du Toit - the TRUE face of paralympic sport in SA (contrary to what Oscar's fan base have to say). The swimmer with the amputated left leg (below the knee). She swam in the able bodied Olympics open water swim; with far less fan fair than OP and I do believe she achieved more than he over the span of her career.

For a true role model (and she admitted suffering from depression etc) look no further than she. She did far more, on far less $$$$$$$$$$$$ than what OP did.

Another one: Ernst van Dyk, who won the wheelchair division of the Boston Marathon for the 10th time over the weekend. Also paying his own way - he too has achieved MUCH more than OP.

**Just an interesting side note. A data company in SA have been following international interest in the trial, in terms of media (mainstream) and social media. The USA leads the race, with Australia second, and South Africa third. Germany and UK also top 5. This changed every few days, but the same nations seemed to top the list. I will try to find the last one they did**

 

[steveml]

apologies, I have had a hectic start to the working 'mini week' and I am struggling to work back through all the posts.

snipped


I'm not surprised you have a hectic working week.

When you mentioned in an early post that your colleagues were in Gauteng, that's a 14 hour drive from Cape Town (28 hour round trip) you've got to endure.

 

[Cape Town Crim.]

snipped


I'm not surprised you have a hectic working week.

When you mentioned in an early post that your colleagues were in Pretoria, that's a 14 hour drive from Cape Town (28 hour round trip) you've got to endure.

:floorlaugh: I live and work in Stellenbosch, Cape Winelands.

Many of my colleagues (in my little field of interest) are stuck up north. And yes, I pity them. :tantrum:

 

[james83]

Barry Bateman ‏@barrybateman Apr 21
@....… and his blaming of the police for moving specific items is puzzling (they could never have known his version).

Barry Bateman ‏@barrybateman Apr 21
@..... police album of the untouched scene shows them inside out, and appearing to be slightly on top of the duvet.

Barry Bateman ‏@barrybateman Apr 21
@.... the watches were stolen later, after the initial untouched scene pictures were taken. Album 1 documents the untouched scene.

 

[Cape Town Crim.]

https://twitter.com/DDIAfrica

International and SA interest in the trial.

This is the 'freshest' one I could find. USA - 1. UK - 2. SA - 3. Germany - 4. Australia - 5. France - 6.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

BBM

I'm a few pages behind trying to catch up, so not sure if anybody has addressed this yet.

The police were not referring to the bedroom balcony, they were referring to a different door that leads out to the roof balcony where the hot tub was. That door was locked.

The bedroom balcony door was indeed open when the police arrived. In my opinion, it was never closed at all that night and I believe the evidence on the right side of the bed substantiates that.

Thanks for that . I think I may have been confused because I thought during cross exam Nel said it was closed . Must have misheard. The photo's did seem to show the door open

Sorry if my posts are in the middle of a conservation I am just trying to catch up

 

[K.T]

Charl du Plessis ‏@CharlduPlessc Apr 9

#OscarPistorius Weird. I was journalist waiting outside OP house. I recall he was taken to Boschkop police station first, not hospital

I can’t understand why Pistorius said in his testimony that he was taken to the medical centre first. It seems incorrect and he’s either lying or mistaken. Like other posters I wonder about alcohol or other intoxicants, which may have passed through his system by the time of hospital testing.

It’s again strange he does not remember this sequence when the next thing he said was that he clearly remembered, amazingly after a year, exactly where the policemen were sitting in their car and that Labuschagne (allegedly) told him, paraphrasing: ‘he was there to take care of him as a family friend and to keep his head down because of the media’.

Charl du Plessis ‏@CharlduPlessc Apr 16
Dixon says Pistorius used a gun to do ballistic tests last week. (Around time he testified he never wanted to be near a gun again?)

Another good tweet by the same journalist: Pistorius testified he doesn't "ever want to handle a firearm again or be around a firearm." Except he just did handle a gun – seems appropriate and truthful…

 

[44ALLAN]

Thanks for the new thread :tyou:

.. here's a reminder of what might have been Roux's promised example of OP being able to scream like a woman ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr3oEOEpV-w

That's gotta be the most embarrassing thing I've ever heard in my life.............10 out of 10 on the cringe worthy scale that's for sure lease:

 

[Cape Town Crim.]

After Prof Simpson mentioned it an article yesterday, I have been searching high and low for a crime scene photo that clearly shows the 'tea/coffee mugs/cups' that should have been there if we believe Oscar.

I can't seem to find one? If there were no coffee mugs and tea cups - where did they get to if Oscar insists no-one went downstairs after they went up to bed?

I stick to my story that they never went to bed at all. It was non stop sniping and niggling from the minute the 'hurdle overcomer' Oscar entered that home just after 18:00.

If anyone can find the mugs - please post a link?

 

[Cape Town Crim.]

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Woman-shoots-husband-mistaking-him-for-burglar-20140423

Now this is a believable 'intruder' story. If my husband was trying to 'blow torch' the safety gate, I might also react in this manner.

Personally I think this chap was more than a little 'under the influence'. A blow torch?