Trial Discussion Thread #31

[steveml]

just wondering... how does a duvet look, when it has been part of a struggle or panic?

I wouldn't expect it to fall flat and square in such a neat pattern. I don't usually struggle or panic when I pull my duvet off the bed, and I can't recall it ever once landing as neat and far way from the bed like it does in the picture.

It shows all the signs of having been moved before the photograph was taken.

 

[jay-jay]

I wouldn't expect it to fall flat and square in such a neat pattern. I don't usually struggle or panic when I pull my duvet off the bed, and I can't recall it ever once landing as neat and far way from the bed like it does in the picture.

It shows all the signs of having been moved before the photograph was taken.

.. in which case, it would probably have been even less neat ..!

 

[Really?]

high ranker that labuschage, on the scene in the early hours - who got him out of bed?

along with oldwage, the friendly attny
carl, the brother
aimee, the sister

stander, the friendly site boss
clarice, the friendly daughter/doorperson.


it was a busy crime scene, full of friendly faces.

true.....they must sleep in their clothes........have to ask.....any one know what day of the week this was???,,,,

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I wouldn't expect it to fall flat and square in such a neat pattern. I don't usually struggle or panic when I pull my duvet off the bed, and I can't recall it ever once landing as neat and far way from the bed like it does in the picture.

It shows all the signs of having been moved before the photograph was taken.

Just wondered
Have there ever been any clear photo's of the blood on the duvet in relation to the blood that has been mentioned on the carpet near it
Also I am a little confused about the jeans in relation to the Duvet . Was that fully resolved with regard to whether the jeans were in fact partly on top of the duvet( I thought yes ) . Was this the point where OP alleged they both must have been moved by the police or forensic's ?

TIA

 

[shane13]

Oscar didn't take acting lessons - says family spokesperson Anneliese Burgess.


http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Oscar_Pistorius/Oscar-didnt-take-acting-lessons-family-20140421

Ms Anneliese Burgess has a linkedin page. [Assuming it is the same person.]

Owner and Creative Director: The Story Telling Agency, Joburg

"We develop compelling communications strategies and companion material based on the art of story telling. Honed by more close on 20 years experience at the very cutting edge of South African journalism, we know how to design and tailor stories in such a way that people "listen and hear", thereby ensuring the intended message reaches the intended audience... "

 

[minor4th]

As a reminder, here is a list of the timestamps of the photos given in court:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Timeline Thread ***NO DISCUSSION***


Any photo taken after 6:17 a.m. must be suspect because that is the point at which there were others besides Van Staden present in the crime scene. Recall also that in the middle of photographing upstairs, Van Staden left and went to photograph the outside of OP's house - and in those photos, you can see people standing in OP's bathroom through the open window

 

[redheadedgal]

molly333: Here's a newspaper that agrees with me:

that was an opinion piece... one person's viewpoint, not a "newspaper".

btw, that journalist also called judge masipa "a frail old black lady"... hardly what i'd call tasteful and worthwhile journalism.

 

[nastasya]

Thank you for your tireless effort . Some just don't want to believe OP the killer is anything but a victim of circumstance.

:gthanks:

You're welcome.

To me it's disgusting that OP not only killed Reeva, but has tried to garner sympathy for it.

What's more disgusting is the people who give it to him.

 

[steveml]

Just wondered
Have there ever been any clear photo's of the blood on the duvet in relation to the blood that has been mentioned on the carpet near it
Also I am a little confused about the jeans in relation to the Duvet . Was that fully resolved with regard to whether the jeans were in fact partly on top of the duvet( I thought yes ) . Was this the point where OP alleged they both must have been moved by the police or forensic's ?

TIA

I've not seen a clear photo showing the blood markings, but I'll have a look. Without being able to see under the duvet it's hard to know if there are more blood marks on the floor. There's nothing to suggest that the duvet was on the bed originally, it just seems likely that it may have been moved.

If the duvet has been moved then it would also be likely that the jeans were not originally in the position they appear on the photo.

 

[nastasya]

You'll have to go back and listen to his testimony.

He virtually admitted the police took the watch, right out from under his nose.

After that, he was protecting the crime scene from the police.

Checking them going in and patting them down going out.

I don't have to go back and listen to anything.

Your account is entirely false. He didn't "practically admit" anything.

That's entirely your own fabrication of his testimony.

 

[BritsKate]

At this point it looks to me that neither side has proved its theory beyond a reasonable doubt. Let's assume that the judge agrees with me. My question is what are the SA laws in this regard.
For example, if the judge rules as above, and then moves to the next question, whether OP was justified in shooting at the presumed intruder. If the judge decides that he was not justified to shoot at an intruder, what is the crime committed? Is that murder or culpable homicide? Also, if it is culpable homicide (as above), what would likely jail time be?

If the judge finds OP intended to kill someone, or should have seen his actions could have resulted in someone's death and proceeded anyway, its murder. If OP proves putative self-defence (basically that he reasonably defended himself and a reasonable person would act the same), he is acquitted of murder which requires intent, but could still be convicted of culpable homicide. If convicted of CH, a sentence could range from nothing to 15 years, solely at the judge's discretion.

By most legal opinion far and wide, its highly unlikely he'd be acquitted of both.

That's my understanding of SA law...and an admittedly quick responce so apologies if my post is a repeat or I haven't explained it well. Trying to read and cook a late tea.

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[sleuth-d-]

I've not seen a clear photo showing the blood markings, but I'll have a look. Without being able to see under the duvet it's hard to know if there are more blood marks on the floor. There's nothing to suggest that the duvet was on the bed originally, it just seems likely that it may have been moved.

If the duvet has been moved then it would also be likely that the jeans were not originally in the position they appear on the photo.

op agreed the jeans fell where they were photographed. and agreed that the blood marks were a continuous line from duvet to carpet.

are you saying the accused is a liar?

 

[kittychi]

Yes an officer (high up) and it was suggested on here that he may have been known OP's aunt who was head of the 'criminal profile dept' at one time. I think they both worked in the same dept. I think he whisked OP off to the medical centre. Cape Town Crim's opinion is that he is a man of integrity. IIRC

I thought OP went to the police station first and went to the medical centre much later, i.e. the afternoon of the next day. No?

 

[jay-jay]

true.....they must sleep in their clothes........have to ask.....any one know what day of the week this was???,,,,

.. it's quite extraordinary, isn't it

 

[Cherwell]

As a reminder, here is a list of the timestamps of the photos given in court:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Timeline Thread ***NO DISCUSSION***

Any photo taken after 6:17 a.m. must be suspect because that is the point at which there were others besides Van Staden present in the crime scene. Recall also that in the middle of photographing upstairs, Van Staden left and went to photograph the outside of OP's house - and in those photos, you can see people standing in OP's bathroom through the open window

Mr Pistorius is clearly innocent of any wrongdoing and should be allowed to walk away without a stain on his character. :doh:

 

[steveml]

op agreed the jeans fell where they were photographed. and agreed that the blood marks were a continuous line from duvet to carpet.

are you saying the accused is a liar?

BBM

Are you saying I said that the accused is a liar?

 

[shane13]

I thought OP went to the police station first and went to the medical centre much later, i.e. the afternoon of the next day. No?

No Kitty, pretty sure OP even testified to being taken direct to hospital for tests. Was accompanied by Brig Gen Gerard Labuschange, PhD
family friend...

 

[screecher]

I want to thank those of you who are now taking up the mantle!

It’s been a frustrating year since I’ first tried to alert the world—here and elsewhere—of the importance of the crime scene removal of the 5th phone. i have possibly put myself at risk with doing this...

I’ve variously endured being ignored, scorned or having general platitudes bandied about.
So it is heartwarming to read some of you stating how important that is and realizing the implications. But please no one put words in my mouth. I never said its data was wiped clean, only that it is highly likely its data has been altered.

Otherwise why would OP’s DT hold on to it for16 days?
And again please do not lose sight of my harping also on how the first few minutes of March 25 Session 1 have been excised from all youtubes. It begins with the witness in mid-sentence and has removed Nel and Roux “stipulating” about the16 days—with judge going along.

Standard jurisprudence for hundreds of years would have made it inadmissible as it has zero chain of custody.

Any conversations and timelines used in trial should not be considered. My piece on the “Logic of the removal of the 5th phone” details why it had to be taken.

I trust you have all read that?? Or I can repost.

Again my heartfelt thanks to those of you who now appreciate the importance of the crime scene removal of the fifth phone and the possible implications and consequences.

Yes, I read it. I'm sure others read it, too. Very compelling. Could you repost it?

op agreed the jeans fell where they were photographed. and agreed that the blood marks were a continuous line from duvet to carpet.

are you saying the accused is a liar?

BBM

:floorlaugh:

How do you know this?

I think you should immediately contact the South African authorities. Maybe you can be a witness at the trial.

Or maybe your just making stuff up that you don't know to be true.

BBM

<modsnip>

 

[Viper]

I don't have to go back and listen to anything.

Your account is entirely false. He didn't "practically admit" anything.

That's entirely your own fabrication of his testimony.

The Colonel did in fact practically admit that the police stole that watch. He ordered that all officers and their cars be searched to try to recover the watch. I'm not sure whether anyone searched him though, or Botha either. And he did apologize to OP and advised him to file a police report about the theft.

As a side note, I would really love to know who stole the freakin' watch, right there in the middle of a murder scene with cops everywhere! That took cojones, or authority! :smile: LOL

This Colonel came across as angry at the police for incompetency, faulting the one officer that handled the gun without gloves, instead of trying to deflect from its importance or something similar. He made fun of Botha too, citing that Botha's claims in an interview about finding OP wearing a bloody t-shirt were false. When asked about the bloody t-shirt he replied, "What shirt? There was no shirt." He claims that when he arrived OP was not wearing any top. Botha probably meant to say that be found OP wearing bloody shorts, BTW.

So he is not all on board with the state, IMO.

 

[nastasya]

I'd like to know if there was blood under the duvet.

Bet 5 cyberbucks there was!

Why is it important for you to make stuff up in defense of an admitted killer?

There is no evidence of any blood under the duvet. None.

Zero.

The blood is on top of the duvet in a direct line that ends up on the carpeting beside the blood on the duvet.