Trial Discussion Thread #31

[sleuth-d-]

It seems the gun was on the left-hand side? (I've seen both under and by) In his recollection of the bedtime routine...he says he put it by the bed, climbed into the left hand side, after Reeva told him to brush his teeth (still weird). Note: One media report puts it under the left-hand side specifically; others say under the bed; and I honestly don't have it in me to rewatch Oscar's testimony. And we still only have his word for it.

He specifically recalled removing the gun from the holster before he whispered/soft spoke to Reeva to get down. He has two holsters...one was found on the table, left hand side. The other in a bedside cabinet on the right hand side. Flip flops/thongs and overnight bag on left. Prosthetic legs and vest on right. Here's some links that may help further:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...rius-timeline-of-how-he-shot-reeva-steenkamp/
http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2014-04-08-pistorius-trial.-week-five-day-two/#.U1ewGPldWMM
http://www.citypress.co.za/news/flip-flops-next-oscars-side-bed/
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/08/oscar-pistorius-trial-tuesday-8-april-live

thanks for the information.

so, if he took it out of the holster, he then put the holster on the left bedside table - which places him close to the left hand corner near the wall side of the bed at the time. i always thought that he was near the jeans/led in his 'version'. [op red herrings; diversions;lies]

(i am going with, unlikely that he took the gun out of the holster and put holster in right bedside table drawer!)

 

[sleuth-d-]

why would the dogs bark??? there was no intruder!!

four gunshots went off!!!!

 

[Trooper]

Thanks as I'd forgotten that! In the surreal business of trying to fit OP's version into something resembling real life I need to be reminded from time to time that it's all built on the foundation of the 'intruder' lie.

that's why I dismiss entirely the fiction of 'the deep terror', the 'noise' of the window sliding, the telling of Reeva to 'call the police'.. like , as if those words have ever crossed OPs little lips on this earth, the creeping along shouting 'get out, get out'.. the careful aiming of the gun, the sequence of shots,...

and the biggest fiction of all, . . back in his bedroom, the 'dawning' that Reeva wasn't there, and all the embroidery of patting the bed and along the curtains, the balcony call for help.. .... oh .. fer petes sake.. its ...

Entirely and totally fabricated.

 

[Trooper]

four gunshots went off!!!!

the dogs were used to it , probably.. no one testified they heard dogs barking.. Mrs Stipp was adamant that her dog didn't bark that night either.

Oscar didn't hear them.. but then, Oscar was deaf to everything that night except his own inner dialogue.

 

[sleuth-d-]

Boating accident lies...

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2014-04-22-did-oscar-pistorius-lie-on-the-stand/#.U1dkGlWSzh6

more for the 'red herrings;diversions;lies' column. it is amazing how much seems to go against what op says. i am really warming to the previously mentioned "op's razor" comment.

looking at this and dr stipp, interesting how people that go to help get treated by the pistorius clan...

 

[sleuth-d-]

the dogs were used to it , probably.. no one testified they heard dogs barking.. Mrs Stipp was adamant that her dog didn't bark that night either.

Oscar didn't hear them.. but then, Oscar was deaf to everything that night except his own inner dialogue.

i accept all that. i would just have thought gunfire was a rare noise on this estate - and would have sent the dogs barmy [or 'barking mad'].

 

[lithgow1]

that's why I dismiss entirely the fiction of 'the deep terror', the 'noise' of the window sliding, the telling of Reeva to 'call the police'.. like , as if those words have ever crossed OPs little lips on this earth, the creeping along shouting 'get out, get out'.. the careful aiming of the gun, the sequence of shots,...

and the biggest fiction of all, . . back in his bedroom, the 'dawning' that Reeva wasn't there, and all the embroidery of patting the bed and along the curtains, the balcony call for help.. .... oh .. fer petes sake.. its ...

Entirely and totally fabricated.

Yep, I agree with you. I'll be honest that for me this case was much less 'innocent until proven guilty' as 'prove your story could be true' and he failed to do that, spectacularly IMO.

Re Brits question, for me it was all the things others have stated and just the overall unbelievability of the story. I know many a person has been shot by someone thinking they were an intruder but none of those cases needed the elaborate scenario concocted by OP.

Another small but telling comment was when OP was being pressed on why he didn't scream on finally breaking through the door and seeing RS lying there. You'd think that at that moment, when his worst fears were realised and he saw all the blood and damage he's caused to someone he claimed to love would be when he'd have let out his longest most despairing scream. His response though was (essentially) 'What would have been the point?'. I get his reasons for saying this (no screams were heard after the bangs) but his reasoning eludes me.

 

[Trooper]

I don't know if its peculiar to Australian dogs, but they seem determined to bark at firecrackers, but not at gunfire..

Dr Stipp wasn't harassed by OPs dogs, or didn't mention any dogs barking when he strode up to the door.... neither did the police, or at least , they didn't mention the dogs going off..

one thing.. before the police left that day, they made sure the gardener was contacted and he was delegated to take the dogs into his care for feeding etc.. wonder what has happened to them??

 

[Trooper]

Yep, I agree with you. I'll be honest that for me this case was much less 'innocent until proven guilty' as 'prove your story could be true' and he failed to do that, spectacularly IMO.

Re Brits question, for me it was all the things others have stated and just the overall unbelievability of the story. I know many a person has been shot by someone thinking they were an intruder but none of those cases needed the elaborate scenario concocted by OP.

Another small but telling comment was when OP was being pressed on why he didn't scream on finally breaking through the door and seeing RS lying there. You'd think that at that moment, when his worst fears were realised and he saw all the blood and damage he's caused to someone he claimed to love would be when he'd have let out his longest most despairing scream. His response though was (essentially) 'What would have been the point?'. I get his reasons for saying this (no screams were heard after the bangs) but his reasoning eludes me.

BBM for emphasis... a surreal moment, and one that resonates, among so many in this trial so far... his tone was one of boredom.

 

[sleuth-d-]

Another good point. The dogs.

One could keep this list going forever; so many things to be questioned. And this on it's own is proof that something is rotten in the state of Oscar.

**I did a little mobile phone light test a few nights back. I stood in our main bedroom and walked down the passage (rather long) away towards our 3rd bedroom right at the bottom. My husband had his back turned towards the passage, and he saw shadows dancing on the walls in front of him and on the sides of him like it was a 1999 festival of llight.

No ways he wouldn't have seen that. He has no legs below the knee, he isn't blind is he?

another one:
netcare
he phones for assistance, reeva is lying on the bathroom floor with serious gunshot wounds.
1. they didn't insist on keeping him on the phone.
2. apparently they tell him to drive her hospital.

no way.

what has bugged me... why is there no recording of this call??
emergency calls are often saved/replayed in criminal cases/news events in the uk... is this not the case in sa?

 

[Panda]

point 4 above. brilliant list.
i would add why the dogs were never heard?? which is most likely irrelevant but has always bugged me.

Am so pleased somebody else mentioned the dogs ... this is an aspect that has been bothering me from the get go, and yet it's never been mentioned. I don't think it's irrelevant at all. Can anyone relate to how their dogs react when there's anything out of the ordinary within their territory?

 

[Trooper]

Am so pleased somebody else mentioned the dogs ... this is an aspect that has been bothering me from the get go, and yet it's never been mentioned. I don't think it's irrelevant at all. Can anyone relate to how their dogs react when there's anything out of the ordinary within their territory?

there was nothing out of the ordinary, in a dogs world , until people started arriving.. Standars, Baba, Stipp, paramedics, police...


no body so far has testified that the dogs were off their collective crumpets at any time..

 

[jay-jay]

That last pic of the magazine rack does look like it was placed there over the pool of blood

Not sure if this has been answered already (still working my way through) but there is a photo somewhere where the magazine rack has been taken away from that pool of blood and there is a patch where the foot of the magazine rack was which is not covered in blood and is the same shape as the foot, and the blood congealed around it .. so the picture you see there must be how the magazine rack was when Reeva fell and bled onto the floor.

 

[lithgow1]

another one:
netcare
he phones for assistance, reeva is lying on the bathroom floor with serious gunshot wounds.
1. they didn't insist on keeping him on the phone.
2. apparently they tell him to drive her hospital.

no way.

what has bugged me... why is there no recording of this call??
emergency calls are often saved/replayed in criminal cases/news events in the uk... is this not the case in sa?

Another excellent point. I didn't listen to OP's direct testimony - was he questioned in any detail over this? TIA for any info.

You'd think that the emergency personnel would want to ask a host of questions before they'd advise putting the injured person in the car and driving them to hospital instead of keeping the caller on the phone as you say and walking them through trying to control any bleeding while waiting for professional help. Perhaps he downplayed the seriousness of the injuries. Perhaps too they did just tell him that, but it doesn't sound quite right IMO.

 

[DebinGA]

It's mid-morning here and so delightful to read the overnight/early morning posts from so many different posters on so many different topics. Unfortunately, at some point later today, the forum will become The Provocateur Show with a majority of posts responding to one poster's "unusual" views of the case. It then becomes unreadable imo.

 

[Panda]

I don't know if its peculiar to Australian dogs, but they seem determined to bark at firecrackers, but not at gunfire..

Dr Stipp wasn't harassed by OPs dogs, or didn't mention any dogs barking when he strode up to the door.... neither did the police, or at least , they didn't mention the dogs going off..

one thing.. before the police left that day, they made sure the gardener was contacted and he was delegated to take the dogs into his care for feeding etc.. wonder what has happened to them??

Has there been any reference to where the dogs were kept? If they were normally kept outside for example, they would surely go off if an intruder was skulking around. Am wondering if OP got the dogs for security purposes?

 

[Panda]

there was nothing out of the ordinary, in a dogs world , until people started arriving.. Standars, Baba, Stipp, paramedics, police...


no body so far has testified that the dogs were off their collective crumpets at any time..

But am wondering why it's not been mentioned. If OP had dogs for security and they were kept outside, would have thought Pit Bull himself would want to know why they weren't barking and yet OP so sure there was an intruder. Just another little piece to put in people's mind I would have thought.

 

[Trooper]

It's mid-morning here and so delightful to read the overnight/early morning posts from so many different posters on so many different topics. Unfortunately, at some point later today, the forum will become The Provocateur Show with a majority of posts responding to one poster's "unusual" views of the case. It then becomes unreadable imo.

a hundred recommendations for that, Deb.

 

[Trooper]

But am wondering why it's not been mentioned. If OP had dogs for security and they were kept outside, would have thought Pit Bull himself would want to know why they weren't barking and yet OP so sure there was an intruder. Just another little piece to put in people's mind I would have thought.

the dogs, like so much of Oscars life was the façade.. the pretence, the idea without the followthru.. these dogs were pets.. it was a hot summers night , probably they had snoozed thru countless nights of Oscar having tantrums.

 

[Karmady]

Very much so!

Thanks for clarifying. I figured as much, but wasn't quite sure. I see another poster has posted the terminology as "third spacing." Is that it?