Trial Discussion Thread #33 - 14.05.05 Day 26

[thewagesofsin]

This is my first South African trial, the motto seems to be break often and early... Is this normal? With a jury trial, attorneys often try to put time between damning evidence and the verdict, I somehow doubt that works in this case with a judge making the ruling. Perhaps they're just buying Oscar a few more days of freedom. Regardless of premeditation or not, it's hard to see Oscar walking off Scott free. There's bound to be some jail time.


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[BritsKate]

Okay I want you guys here to pretend you are Roux.

How would you answer the following question

OP. Roux Im really really concerned and I need a straight answer. Will you still get me an acquittal like you said ?

ROUX. [ Insert answer here]

Roux: Are you !@*£%$# crazy?


(Only sorta tongue in cheek. I think the ONLY chance for acquittal would be an involuntary defence using temporary insanity, or something like that.)


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[james83]

Let's think about this, even those who think O.P is innocent of at least not knowing it was Reeva in the toilet

1) Oscar's live in gardener Frank Chiziweni claims to have heard or seen nothing of the incident on the morning of 14th Feb 2013

2) Carice Stander testified today that when she arrived at O.P's house on that fateful morning, Chiziweni was outside the house standing with Silverwoods security staff

So if he heard nothing of the incident, then who woke him up?.

Does anyone not find this at least slightly suspicious?, because to me it smells very very fishy.

 

[Cherwell]

This is my first South African trial, the motto seems to be break often and early... Is this normal? With a jury trial, attorneys often try to put time between damning evidence and the verdict, I somehow doubt that works in this case with a judge making the ruling. Perhaps they're just buying Oscar a few more days of freedom. Regardless of premeditation or not, it's hard to see Oscar walking off Scott free. There's bound to be some jail time.

I was chatting yesterday to a South African lady who is here on holiday, and she laughed about the trial progress: it's typical Africa, she said, nothing is ever done in a hurry. She was very surprised about there being a bank holiday for the election though. In fact she thought I'd got it wrong. She didn't remember it ever happening before.

 

[zwiebel]

There was a bank holiday in Europe May 1st, One in England today and SA has one Wednesday. And the poor USAers didn't get one at all.

I was going to say the day off might give the SA legal eagles a chance to confirm they'll be starting the trial 9am from now on, as they 'wanted' before the long break....but truth to tell, I don't think anyone in that court wants a 9am start......

 

[JudgeJudi]

Very strange Stander inferred they were acquaintances rather than good friends and yet was asked to Reeva's private memorial at "uncle Pistorius's" house.

And the first person OP rang after committing such a horrendous act and obviously far more important than ringing Netcare.

 

[zwiebel]

I'm not being frivolous, it's just I am an animal lover - does anyone know what's happened to OP's dogs now he has moved from the house? And also, the burglary/home intrusion he mentioned, where they 'kicked my dog'?

I recall he said he wasn't home at the time, so how on earth did he know his dog had been kicked? That has been playing on my mind a LOT.

 

[Cherwell]

I was going to say the day off might give the SA legal eagles a chance to confirm they'll be starting the trial 9am from now on, as they 'wanted' before the long break....but truth to tell, I don't think anyone in that court wants a 9am start......

And yet everybody seems to go to bed so early ..... You'd think they'd all be up with the lark

 

[DebinGA]

I'm not being frivolous, it's just I am an animal lover - does anyone know what's happened to OP's dogs now he has moved from the house? And also, the burglary/home intrusion he mentioned, where they 'kicked my dog'?

I recall he said he wasn't home at the time, so how on earth did he know his dog had been kicked? That has been playing on my mind a LOT.

I think the chance of his dog being kicked, during a home invasion he never reported to police, being one of the very few things OP hasn't lied about is extremely low, zwiebel.

 

[JudgeJudi]

<respectfully snipped>

milady. I went into the house. seeing Oscar carring revva down, he was walking fast, I was walking fast.. dad was walking fast. Oscar said, can you get her in the car get her to hospital. I said no *( she is crying ). I said no, just put her down put er down, he was crying.

Judge tell s her to stop and compose herself.

OP's just lost a few precious minutes to hurry upstairs and do a bit of housecleaning.

 

[zwiebel]

Here's the reference (scroll to find) to the kicking the of the dog, he was home:

'..a man he saw lurking in his garden kicked his dog'

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2014/04/07/oscar-pistorius-reeva-steenkamp-murder-trial-day-17

Frankly, I'm amazed OP didn't at least fire a shot into the air when he saw that. If I was daft enough to buy myself a gun and saw some strange man on my property kicking my dog, I think I would definitely fire a warning shot....although I'd be so outraged I'd probably just yell and throw whatever I had to hand - which would be my ipad.

 

[DebinGA]

Here's the reference (scroll to find) to the kicking the of the dog, he was home:

'..a man he saw lurking in his garden kicked his dog'

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2014/04/07/oscar-pistorius-reeva-steenkamp-murder-trial-day-17

Frankly, I'm amazed OP didn't at least fire a shot into the air when he saw that. If I was daft enough to buy myself a gun and saw some strange man on my property kicking my dog, I think I would definitely fire a warning shot....although I'd be so outraged I'd probably just yell and throw whatever I had to hand - which would be my ipad.

Pistorius also said he was the victim of several crimes: His house was broken into in 2005 while he was away, a man he saw lurking his garden kicked his dog, a car sped up on the highway to catch him (and then someone inside shot at him) and he was hit in the head at a party.

* no police reports filed for any of those supposed incidents
* the highway "shooting" was a proven lie imo, since OP couldn't name who brought him home or who took him to retrieve the car the next day
* his head got hit in a fracas he instigated in a jealous rage iirc

 

[zwiebel]

And today Stander said there 'will be a minute book' where estate security will have logged any incidents, but I find it odd that hasn't appeared yet. Maybe it's coming?

ETA: I'm saying that as some of our SA posters have said it's not unusual to inform private security, rather than police, I think.

 

[Magdalyn]

my sliding door was open.. it was rather hot.. I was lying in my bed.. I had to get up to close my sliding door, in case my dog ran out and barked outside.

I heard a person shouting help HELP HELP

<Respectfully snipped and bolded by me>

Pardon if this has been asked and answered, I'm late catching up this morning.

Is it common in SA, when it's 'rather hot', to not run one's air conditioner? Or, is it common to run the a/c and then let all the cool air fly out your sliding door? Or are these estates so shoddily built that no one's a/c works and everyone's sliders were open that night?

Interesting that she had 'issues' regarding the need to fiddle with her sliding doors at just the same time OP happened to run (on his stumps?) to his to yell help help help! Very ... fortuitous. Ahem.

 

[james83]

I think people need to realise that even if Masipa accepts Oscar genuinely believed there was an intruder in the toilet, if in her judgement his intention at that point was to kill the person in the toilet then he is guilty of Murder and not culpable homicide.
If he's intention was to kill than it's irrelevant if Oscar intended to kill an intruder but killed Reeva instead.

 

[kittychi]

I think people need to realise that even if Masipa accepts Oscar genuinely believed there was an intruder in the toilet, if in her judgement his intention at that point was to kill the person in the toilet then he is guilty of Murder and not culpable homicide.
If he's intention was to kill than it's irrelevant if Oscar intended to kill an intruder but killed Reeva instead.

Agreed.

It is quite unfortunate that the judge has to wade around in Oscar World to find the truth.

 

[DebinGA]

SA seems to give a lot of discretion to the trial judge re sentencing. I still can't get over convicted criminals being allowed to avoid jail while their appeals are on-going. That doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

 

[jay-jay]

the thing is, its two separate trips.. one he made while Stipp was there. ( the suicide run) . the other was when the paramedics were there asking for ID. )Stipp had gone home by the time the paramedics had arrived..


Now..Carise is there for BOTH of these trips. .. only mentions one. not the other..

I've still got a number of pages to catch up on, but I just wanted to pick up on this post because it's something I noticed immediately while catching up on the defence witness testimonies earlier today ..

.. when OP gave his testimony, he stated that he went upstairs when the paramedics arrived in order to get Reeva's ID .. but Stipp had said OP had gone up there before the paramedics arrived. There were deffo two trips upstairs, and there is deffo someone trying to muddy the waters here, imo, by trying to suggest they were both one of the same trip upstairs .. I'm pretty sure they weren't and am going to check out both Stipp's and OP's testimonies again to be certain of what they both stated.

 

[thewagesofsin]

SA seems to give a lot of discretion to the trial judge re sentencing. I still can't get over convicted criminals being allowed to avoid jail while their appeals are on-going. That doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

Agreed. It sounds like the system is greatly weighted in your favour if you have money. Too bad for those who don't.


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[patCee]

I've still got a number of pages to catch up on, but I just wanted to pick up on this post because it's something I noticed immediately while catching up on the defence witness testimonies earlier today ..

.. when OP gave his testimony, he stated that he went upstairs when the paramedics arrived in order to get Reeva's ID .. but Stipp had said OP had gone up there before the paramedics arrived. There were deffo two trips upstairs, and there is deffo someone trying to muddy the waters here, imo, by trying to suggest they were both one of the same trip upstairs .. I'm pretty sure they weren't and am going to check out both Stipp's and OP's testimonies again to be certain of what they both stated.

IIRC Stipp saw OP going upstairs and was concerned that he would harm himself with the gun. The paramedics hadn't arrived then. Later OP went upstairs again to get RS' bag for ID the paramedics had requested.