Trial Discussion Thread #33 - 14.05.05 Day 26

[jay-jay]

A year ago, it came out that even though his house is right there, there is a noisy water fountain or such in between, and he heard nothing that night.

Does anyone know whereabouts this Frank the caretaker's house is in OP's grounds? The grounds of OP's house isn't particularly big and I can't see any outbuildings in the overhead shots, unless I've missed something somewhere .. I also can't see any kind of fountain in the grounds, either ..

 

[jay-jay]

So what do we make of this


Barry Bateman ‏@barrybateman 4m
#OscarTrial I’ve established that Oscar’s live-in caretaker Frank Chiziweni provided nothing useful in his statement to the police. BB
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More

Barry Bateman ‏@barrybateman 4m
#OscarTrial The sum of Frank Chiziweni’s statement to the police was - I saw nothing. I heard nothing. I know nothing. BB
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More

Suspicious much?

BIB .. blimey, well that's pretty much paraphrasing 'see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil' isn't it ..


Edit: apologies, just seen that James said virtually the same thing!

 

[jay-jay]

So OP thought his house was safe enough for Reeva to stay there the entire week on her own???

Yep, I was thinking that too .. and I recall Stander saying she had done this on a couple of occasions (not just the one) while OP was in Cape Town.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Does anyone know whereabouts this Frank the caretaker's house is in OP's grounds? The grounds of OP's house isn't particularly big and I can't see any outbuildings in the overhead shots, unless I've missed something somewhere .. I also can't see any kind of fountain in the grounds, either ..

I thought it was described as a shed in the rear garden in one article so I wondered if it was a summer house to serve the pool but when I
looked at aerial photos I couldn't make out his swimming pool .The only likely spot where there is enough garden seems to be under the master bedroom balcony area
A pool pump and boiler can be quite noisy so I wondered if that is what Franks accommodation was next to and that is what some press articles have referred to as a fountain.
Even so you would still be able to hear shouts for help and gun shots so close by.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I've still got a number of pages to catch up on, but I just wanted to pick up on this post because it's something I noticed immediately while catching up on the defence witness testimonies earlier today ..

.. when OP gave his testimony, he stated that he went upstairs when the paramedics arrived in order to get Reeva's ID .. but Stipp had said OP had gone up there before the paramedics arrived. There were deffo two trips upstairs, and there is deffo someone trying to muddy the waters here, imo, by trying to suggest they were both one of the same trip upstairs .. I'm pretty sure they weren't and am going to check out both Stipp's and OP's testimonies again to be certain of what they both stated.

This was my recollection as well and I also felt it was being confused today.
I don't imagine the judge will be confused . She seems to take lots of notes and has her assessors to help with things like this.

 

[kittychi]

I've still got a number of pages to catch up on, but I just wanted to pick up on this post because it's something I noticed immediately while catching up on the defence witness testimonies earlier today ..

.. when OP gave his testimony, he stated that he went upstairs when the paramedics arrived in order to get Reeva's ID .. but Stipp had said OP had gone up there before the paramedics arrived. There were deffo two trips upstairs, and there is deffo someone trying to muddy the waters here, imo, by trying to suggest they were both one of the same trip upstairs .. I'm pretty sure they weren't and am going to check out both Stipp's and OP's testimonies again to be certain of what they both stated.

Wow, good point. IMO Carise is trying to make two trips sound like one...piggy-back Dr. Stipp's statement of the 1) trip that he was afraid OP went up there to shoot himself and the 2) trip to get the ID.

More Oscar-Speak

 

[callyn]

Does anyone know whereabouts this Frank the caretaker's house is in OP's grounds? The grounds of OP's house isn't particularly big and I can't see any outbuildings in the overhead shots, unless I've missed something somewhere .. I also can't see any kind of fountain in the grounds, either ..

Some time ago I read here that it's a room attached to the house but facing the neighbor on the left as you're looking at the house. It has a patio or deck/balcony facing that neighbor and the fountain is in the neighbor's yard. I do not have a link for this info but remember looking at the photo of the house from above and seeing where this room would be.

If this link works you can see it here:
http://www.businessinsider.com/phot...allegedly-killed-his-girlfriend-2013-2#!IW6Yw

 

[jay-jay]

Let's think about this, even those who think O.P is innocent of at least not knowing it was Reeva in the toilet

1) Oscar's live in gardener Frank Chiziweni claims to have heard or seen nothing of the incident on the morning of 14th Feb 2013

2) Carice Stander testified today that when she arrived at O.P's house on that fateful morning, Chiziweni was outside the house standing with Silverwoods security staff

So if he heard nothing of the incident, then who woke him up?.

Does anyone not find this at least slightly suspicious?, because to me it smells very very fishy.

:goodpost:

 

[Gbtaketwo]

And today Stander said there 'will be a minute book' where estate security will have logged any incidents, but I find it odd that hasn't appeared yet. Maybe it's coming?

ETA: I'm saying that as some of our SA posters have said it's not unusual to inform private security, rather than police, I think.

I would be amazed if there wasn't an official report of the alleged incident of a woman being tied up . Surely this would be quite a serious event on a private gated estate. You would think the prosecution really would want confirmation of this one way or another.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Just had a look at some more aerial photo's and have found one picture that shows the pool is indeed in the garden that both master and spare bedroom balconies look out onto .
I also found another picture of OP with his dogs by the pool and it does look as though there may be a water feature that goes into his pool .
Not sure if it is OK to post the pic or not .

 

[jay-jay]

IMO it was normal for them try to stop the bleeding from arm and hip and not do anything with the head wound especially considering brain matter was on the outside. Indeed, I sincerely hope nobody wanting to help a person with an open head injury ever tries to do anything because they risk causing even more damage. Demonstrating the complications of trying anything with head injuries, any first response course worth its name stresses not to remove a helmet unless there is no other option for administering mouth to mouth and iirc not even paramedics remove helmets unless absolutely necessary so depending on the circumstances some with suspected head or spine injuries are scanned and/or X-rayed with helmets on.

.. all of which makes it even more strange/implausible that Netcare would actually have told OP to bring her into the hospital himself.

 

[whiterum]

Okay I want you guys here to pretend you are Roux.

How would you answer the following question

OP. Roux Im really really concerned and I need a straight answer. Will you still get me an acquittal like you said ?

ROUX. [ Insert answer here]

[Yes a full acquittal if you touch wood, cross your fingers and your legs and that's putting it as straight as Ma-Ladys hair bun ]

 

[whiterum]

Sky news reporting of today's witness evidence is clearly cut and twisted in favour of OP, it is bloody well annoying. Just as well 'My Lady' hears it all first hand.

 

[katydid23]

yep, the Malawian housekeeper who stayed on the property.

If OP needed help picking up RS, why didnt he fetch Frank, who was already on the property?

 

[Interested Bystander]

SA seems to give a lot of discretion to the trial judge re sentencing. I still can't get over convicted criminals being allowed to avoid jail while their appeals are on-going. That doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

I read somewhere that it is because the judiciary have been giving more stringent sentences and the prisons are very, very overcrowded. Apparently if Bail has been allowed it is more likely that the person will be allowed to stay out of jail whilst on appeal. In some jails in SA there are twice as many prisoners as their are places.

 

[minor4th]

Okay I want you guys here to pretend you are Roux.

How would you answer the following question

OP. Roux Im really really concerned and I need a straight answer. Will you still get me an acquittal like you said ?

ROUX. [ Insert answer here]

"I never promised you an acquittal"

 

[Gbtaketwo]

If OP needed help picking up RS, why didnt he fetch Frank, who was already on the property?

I think most people would like to know the answer to this question .He could have asked him when he went downstairs to unlock the door.

 

[MeeBee]

Well, he explained that - he was using his own words to describe what OP told him.

Is that all or was there actually embellishing?

Not really that of to me. If someone says they accidently shoot someone because they thought they were an intruder then it was a mistake.

 

[MeeBee]

I wouldn't say Stander has definitely made up his mind - he said it was problematic when he thought there were 8 shots fired.

Stander was credible - he was not defensive, nothing to suggest he lied or exaggerated about anything.

Interesting the assessor is asking again about Reeva being able to use the remote and alarm.

Wow that is an excellent question. Which assessor was this? I never even thought about that.

 

[minor4th]

Wow that is an excellent question. Which assessor was this? I never even thought about that.

The female assessor. Same one who asked about the alarm when Oscar was testifying.