Trial Discussion Thread #33 - 14.05.05 Day 26

[44ALLAN]

Makes you wonder why in all this supposed darkness that they didn't put all the lights on. There was a young woman critically wounded, so it would be essential to see clearly what the hell they were all doing.

EXACTLY.

And that goes for the incident night too................pitch black and going to the loo and the balcony etc without lights on?................totally and utterly unbelievable in the real world.

 

[shane13]

Johan Stander was estate manager, so he and OP likely shared the common goal to keep the media away at all costs and get Reeva to the hospital as quickly and quietly as possible. Dr. Stipp's arrival spoiled their plan. And only then was an ambulance called at Dr. Stipp's insistence.
I don't view Stander as an honorable man. ...:cow:

Former estate manager.
it came out today--he had resigned in January.

And this is actually a significant thing. it means he was not called in any type of official capacity, because he did not have any on Feb.14.

 

[Feynman]

Seriously, could Carice have heard anyone screaming ( at OP's house) from that far away?

She's not that much further away than Burger/Johnson.

 

[DebinGA]

Makes you wonder why in all this supposed darkness that they didn't put all the lights on. There was a young woman critically wounded, so it would be essential to see clearly what the hell they were all doing.

Stander and OP didn't want to rouse the neighbors. That's why imo no ambulance was summoned until Dr. Stipp insisted. I think the garbage bags were meant to protect the upholstery in whichever car they were going to use to transport dead Reeva to the hospital.

 

[aoibhinn]

RE Frank:

Is it certain that he was sleepng downstairs that night, as I see upthread?
Some papers may have said that a year ago.

But he also is said to have had that separate small dwelling on OP's property.
I believe he is also an older gent.

I believe many posters have mentioned that he had a small cottage to the rear of the property. There was a noisy water feature between Frank and the house. He said that he didn't hear anything on the night.

 

[shane13]

It's my first year of university, honours degree. I'm in Ireland. I'm not quite sure what a major is, though I've heard the term in relation to the US education system.

Oh, OK. Thanks I guess you don't have that there.

I know you can figure out what it means.
Put it another way; is that what you intend to pursue as a career, or at least as the main area of course work at Uni?
Good luck.

 

[DebinGA]

Former estate manager.
it came out today--he had resigned in January.

And this is actually a significant thing. it means he was not called in any type of official capacity, because he did not have any on Feb.14.

I'd need more than Stander's word for that. He lived in the estate and had a vested interest in protecting its reputation and his home's property value as being a very safe place to live.

 

[IfIMay]

Johan Stander was the ex- estate manager, so he and OP likely shared the common goal to keep the media away at all costs and get Reeva to the hospital as quickly and quietly as possible. Dr. Stipp's arrival spoiled their plan. And only then was an ambulance called at Dr. Stipp's insistence.
I don't view Stander as an honorable man. ...:cow:

BBM. Fixed that for you.

 

[supernovaNic]

Did the doctor/radiologist testify? And if so, did he say he heard 4 shots, screaming and then 4 shots as Stander stated? Thank you.

 

[Greater Than]

CS: Just as I was about to get out of bed, I heard someone shout, 'help, help, help!'

She dropped her blinds to look thru window but couldn't see where noise was coming from. Went back to bed, heart pounding. Dogs kept on barking 'Didn't want to calm down'.

She's gabbling now. Too fast.

-- 5 MINUTE BREAK --

CS: Lying in bed...I knew there must be terrible trouble - I could hear a man shouting, so was thinking, where's the lady?...

I went to my mom, said I could hear shouts. She said yes, OP phoned your dad, he shot Reeva.

BBM - So initially she testified she heard "someone" shout, then after the break it was a man.

And she wondered "where's the lady?"?!?!?! How in the world would she know there was a lady in the house where the screams came from?!

This bothers me.

 

[shane13]

I'd need more than Stander's word for that. He lived in the estate and had a vested interest in protecting its reputation and his home's property value as being a very safe place to live.

??

Are you saying you think he lied about his resignation?
Easily found on record.

 

[supernovaNic]

"*3:20 a.m. - Oscar calls Netcare and reports that they advised him to take Reeva to the hospital and not wait for the ambulance" <<< Taken from Timeline thread

IS there a recording of this call?
How far is the nearest hospital?
Does Netcare (like our 911 I'm assuming) have a bad response time for ambulances?
Why doesn't/don't they say apply pressure to the wounds?
Has anyone from Netcare been questioned/testified?

 

[shane13]

-- 5 MINUTE BREAK --



BBM - So initially she testified she heard "someone" shout, then after the break it was a man.

And she wondered "where's the lady?"?!?!?! How in the world would she know there was a lady in the house where the screams came from?!

This bothers me.

Bothers me too. Probably many here.
I also think Nel could have been both more forceful and longer with both of them... JMO

 

[katydid23]

Maybe he was afraid of the dark.

I'll bet he had Frank's cell #. When my kids still lived here I used to communicate w/them by cell quite often. We have a 2 story house and they were usually locked away in their rooms. If I just had a quick need or question, I called them and asked. No need to go up the stairs and knock.

I still don't understand why he called the estate mgr, instead of his personal assistant, who was right downstairs.

 

[james83]

Just realised why did Oscar not get bandages for Reeva?, given his stumps he would not have been short of them.

 

[jilly]

]Stander and OP didn't want to rouse the neighbors.[/B] That's why imo no ambulance was summoned until Dr. Stipp insisted. I think the garbage bags were meant to protect the upholstery in whichever car they were going to use to transport dead Reeva to the hospital.

Isn't that something. I suppose for any other reason, an ambulance would have been called. In the meantime, Oscar totally disturbed the crime scene. He should have been charged with that too, same as the weapons charges.imo

 

[katydid23]

Bothers me too. Probably many here.
I also think Nel could have been both more forceful and longer with both of them... JMO

I think that was a judgement call on Nel's part. I think he assessed their strength and demeanor, and figured they would do more harm than good. She is a legal professional and was not going to crack. And the old man was very sympathetic character, so Nel had to walk on eggshells w/him. I think it was better to get them off the stand. He did get the culpable murder evidence with their testimony however.

 

[Greater Than]

OW asks him how long OP upstairs.

S: Difficult to say...my daughter jumped up, while my daughter was upstairs on the landing she called him -less than 40 seconds.

I phoned Mr P's brother at 3.59, which is when Col V arrived.

CS: They (medics) must have gone at some stage...they asked for ID for Reeva. I said Oscar where's her handbag? He said it's upstairs, I'll go fetch it.

R: Did you go with him.

CS: No....at a stage I went upstairs to call him to bring the handbag down.

R: How long was that?

Long explanation where her dad came in straight after and said where's Oscar?...I ran up...it was dark, I was scared...I could hear him walk on the towel area, I said 'Oscar, please just bring the bag!'

Breaking down. Says she was terrified he would kill himself up there.

ETA that 'towel area' must have been 'tiled', thinking about it.

Maybe it's just me, but her order to "please just bring the bag!" sounds to me like he was upstairs much longer than 40 seconds. Him being up there for less than 40 seconds to get Reeva's handbag would not cause this girl to panic and wonder what was taking him so long.

 

[aoibhinn]

Stander and OP didn't want to rouse the neighbors. That's why imo no ambulance was summoned until Dr. Stipp insisted. I think the garbage bags were meant to protect the upholstery in whichever car they were going to use to transport dead Reeva to the hospital.

BBM

If that's true, it's beyond calculating, beyond cold. Who worries about their upholstery in the midst of a scene like that?

 

[shane13]

Bothers me too. Probably many here.
I also think Nel could have been both more forceful and longer with both of them... JMO

I just realized that maybe Roux thought so too?
And he was expecting a longer cross from Nel against both of them, and was why he did not schedule another witness today?