Trial Discussion Thread #33 - 14.05.05 Day 26

[Greater Than]

I wouldn't say Stander has definitely made up his mind - he said it was problematic when he thought there were 8 shots fired.

Stander was credible - he was not defensive, nothing to suggest he lied or exaggerated about anything.

Interesting the assessor is asking again about Reeva being able to use the remote and alarm.

BBM - He said he had OP over for coffee from time to time, but he never had OP over for dinner, never went out for a drink with him, never had a long conversation with him, and did not know him in a social capacity. BUT, he was the first person OP called after shooting Reeva and he also went to her memorial at his uncle's house.

He minimized his relationship with OP. This makes him not credible. He clearly downplayed how close they are because wanted to come across as an unbiased witness.

 

[shane13]

No worries. This is the full autopsy report you are talking about isn't it shane? Do you know if it will be made available once the trial has concluded or will it be forever sealed? TIA.

Well here and now yes.

It's a Govt thing basically, and alas Govts can seal things in perpetuity if they wish. I would doubt that it would be made available soon after trial concludes.

OTOH, one item of evidence that should have been kept under control and guard [given the likelihood of Appeals coming] --the door--was "released into public domain". And of course this judge took the stipulation that the 5th phone was held by DT for 11 days after it was illegally removed from the crime scene on 14 Feb 2013. (No investigation...) JMO

 

[shane13]

http://www.enca.com/south-africa/oscar-trial-estate-manager-weeps-he-testifies

"“He was torn apart. Broken. Desperate. Pleading…. And his commitment to save the young lady’s life… How he begged her to stay with him, how he begged God to keep her alive,” Stander said, weeping...."

BBM;
Who talks like that instead of decribing what he saw?
That sounds rehearsed and disingenuous.
MOO

 

[soozieqtips]

BBM - He said he had OP over for coffee from time to time, but he never had OP over for dinner, never went out for a drink with him, never had a long conversation with him, and did not know him in a social capacity. BUT, he was the first person OP called after shooting Reeva and he also went to her memorial at his uncle's house.

He minimized his relationship with OP. This makes him not credible. He clearly downplayed how close they are because wanted to come across as an unbiased witness.

BBM - totally agree. Why would he be the first person OP called after murdering Reeva if he wasn't more than a casual acquaintance? And who invites someone they're not involved with socially to a private memorial for their dead girlfriend? I call BS on Stander's description of their relationship.

 

[DebinGA]

http://citizen.co.za/170322/pistorius-broken-neighbour/

Stander told the court that when Pistorius called him he said: “Oom (uncle) Johan please, please, please come to my house. I shot Reeva, I thought she was an intruder.

Maybe in SA addressing a casual acquaintance as "Uncle" isn't as unusual as it would be in the U.S..

 

[soozieqtips]

http://citizen.co.za/170322/pistorius-broken-neighbour/

Maybe in SA addressing a casual acquaintance as "Uncle" isn't as unusual as it would be in the U.S..

It would be unusual in the UK too. Many years ago when I was a kid, we called any friends of our mum and dad 'uncle' and 'auntie'. It was a common thing to do back then when we were children. But calling a casual acquaintance 'Uncle' does seem weird. Does that mean Stander's wife was 'Auntie'??

 

[minor4th]

So Dr Stipp heard both set's of sound's then a man shout for help 3 times
Logic tell's us Carice Stander was awoken after the 2nd set of sounds, she also then heard a man shout for help 3 times.
Oscar's bail affidavit said he shouted for help before breaking the toilet door down.
This show's that no one heard the breaking of the toilet door, it back's up the theory that the door was damaged earlier(first set of sounds), and simply pried open etc after gunshot's.

Burger and Johnson heard OP yelling before the last set of bangs (cricket bat)

 

[DebinGA]

I keep hearing about OP publicly crying out for God to help him that night, again today from Stander. Why has no one, even OP, reported hearing him crying out for God to forgive him?

 

[IfIMay]

I keep hearing about OP publicly crying out for God to help him that night, again today from Stander. Why has no one, even OP, reported hearing him crying out for God to forgive him?

forgive him for what? It was all a silly accidental mistake. :facepalm:

 

[minor4th]

Surely it bolsters a murder conviction rather than CH?

Isn't CH causing death by a reckless or negligent act?

Shooting someone four times because you think they are an intruder is surely a deliberate act and therefore murder.

I don't see how this helps a case for murder or culpable homicide - to me it tends to support his putative self defense claim :waitasec:

How are y'all seeing this as helpful for a conviction?

 

[shane13]

I keep hearing about OP publicly crying out for God to help him that night, again today from Stander. Why has no one, even OP, reported hearing him crying out for God to forgive him?

Ad think about how quick the transition was from "Security, everything is fine" to "God please save Reeva!"

Now that's acting range.

In any film, only Oscar should play Oscar, and get one.

 

[DebinGA]

I don't see how this helps a case for murder or culpable homicide - to me it tends to support his putative self defense claim :waitasec:

How are y'all seeing this as helpful for a conviction?

Stander quoted OP saying, "I shot Reeva. I thought she was an intruder." So that at least clarifies his intention at the time imo. It was no accident as he tried to quasi-claim.

 

[Viper]

Well here and now yes.

It's a Govt thing basically, and alas Govts can seal things in perpetuity if they wish. I would doubt that it would be made available soon after trial concludes.

OTOH, one item of evidence that should have been kept under control and guard [given the likelihood of Appeals coming] --the door--was "released into public domain". And of course this judge took the stipulation that the 5th phone was held by DT for 11 days after it was illegally removed from the crime scene on 14 Feb 2013. (No investigation...) JMO

In the appellate process both sides can only use what is in the record. It is copy and paste only. The door could disappear and it would mean nothing.

 

[minor4th]

Did the doctor/radiologist testify? And if so, did he say he heard 4 shots, screaming and then 4 shots as Stander stated? Thank you.

He did testify, but I thought he said 2-3 shots, screaming and then 3 shots

 

[minor4th]

Stander quoted OP saying, "I shot Reeva. I thought she was an intruder." So that at least clarifies his intention at the time imo. It was no accident as he tried to quasi-claim.

Oh, thanks. I never thought it was an accident. I don't know why OP didn't just state that clearly during his testimony

 

[minor4th]

I haven't listened to today's testimony, but after reading this thread it appears that neither Stander nor his daughter mentioned this. All that was said was that OP begged the Stander daughter to put Reeva in her car to take her to the hospital. Not once did either testify that OP said Netcare instructed him to do so.

Carice Stander mentioned it. Oscar told her he had called for an ambulance but he couldn't get them to understand what he needed - something to that effect.

 

[ColonelMustard]

My dogs would sleep through World War III, but just let a cat slink along the bottom of the garden ..... :facepalm:

Ha! )

 

[ColonelMustard]

Nice find! I missed that on Netcare's site. I have tried to find out if OP's and other calls of that morning were recorded. It seems they were. I wonder now if they were doing this in February of 2013.

Is there a South African equivalent to the US Freedom of Information Act (FOIA)? If so, it might be worth it for someone in SA who's online here to make a request for that recording.

 

[Karmady]

Is there a South African equivalent to the US Freedom of Information Act (FOIA)? If so, it might be worth it for someone in SA who's online here to make a request for that recording.

I think it's a pretty safe bet that someone thought of that already

 

[thewagesofsin]

I think it's a pretty safe bet that someone thought of that already

You never know until you ask. Thinking that someone else has got it is how we watch unspeakable horrors go on.


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