Trial Discussion Thread #33 - 14.05.05 Day 26

[Apollo]

Don't quote me on this, lol, but I think there was a total of 11 witnesses for the DT.

And how many of those 11 won't be testifying now because of 'scheduling conflicts'?

 

[steveml]

Even though he was standing outside when the Standers arrived.
I'm pretty sure his true version would be useful.

I get the feeling that Frank was a bit of a caretaker in name only.

It appears that OP looked after him quite well, but the guy didn't really do much, as you can see from the house repairs that needed doing.

It could be that he'd been on the beer, or the smoke, as it must get quite mundane living on your own in an outhouse next to a swimming pool pump and noisy fountain.
He may well have been 'out of it' most of the time for all we know. The last thing anyone wants on the stand is an unreliable witness as this only serves to potentially damage credible witnesses for both sides.

 

[asanque]

It tells us much about how much Frank is likely to know, but also knows only too well 'the lie of the land' IMO.

Yep, so Frank heard and saw nothing and slept through the gunshots and screaming.

Yet despite not having been woken up by any of the above, he just woke up for some other reason and was at the door when the Standers arrived.

One would also have thought that if Oscar was having trouble moving Reeva, instead of calling the Standers, he would have just woken Frank.

:scared:

 

[james83]

How does logic tell us that? She estimated about five minutes between hearing the calls for help and the phone call that was received from Oscar, and she was awake for a short time before that. The phone call from Oscar came about two minutes after the second set of sounds. I think logic suggests that she was awoken before the second set of sounds and didn't hear them because she was some distance away and by that time had closed her balcony door. This might be further support for the second sounds being bat strikes as one might expect gun shots to be heard even in that circumstance by a person who was already awake.

It tells us that because she heard no screams but heard the man shouting for help 3 times that Dr Stipp heard after the 2nd set of sounds.

 

[steveml]

You can't keep someone alive who's already dead and has brain matter entangled in their hair. Instead of getting towels, it would have been more useful if she had turned on some lights so she could see what was going on.

That makes no difference. Do you think for one minute that there was somebody calm and collected over their shoulders administering instructions?

Sure, we all the know exactly the best thing to do after the event, but we don't always do it at the time. Far from it.

What was the right thing to do doesn't matter one iota to the trial, or to Reeva.

You either believe this young lady was attempting to save Reeva, or complicit in attempting to kill her. It's that simple.

 

[supernovaNic]

Does anyone have the layout of Oscar's home and where Frank stayed? Was he inside the house or in an outhouse?

 

[Fuskier]

Very good and deep point.

And was it not Stander who got Dr Stipp's phone number then and there which led [just a few hours later] with the call that said Mr Pistorius' lawyers will be contacting you shortly, as soon as Dr Stipp got to work?

Exactly! Exposed again IMO.

 

[Fuskier]

With Reeva still lying dead in the house, OP was on the phone to his friend Jivaris, the expensive car "magnate", whose upscale cars OP borrowed but claimed to others were his own. He wanted Jivaris to get to his house asap, I can only imagine why. I've read that Jivaris and his wife/gf have distanced themselves from OP since.

Exactly: "...With Reeva still lying dead in the house, OP was on the phone to his friend Jivaris, the expensive car "magnate".

If you had just accidentally shot your friend to death, wouldn't you be in 'shock' at such a devastating, tragic accident? Would you call a friend like Jivaris at such a time?

IMO this augurs to further evidence of 'calculation' on OP's part.

 

[Cymbaline]

Does anyone have the layout of Oscar's home and where Frank stayed? Was he inside the house or in an outhouse?

No but it's for sale. You have to send a $5,000 deposit just to see pictures of it.

He did some magazine interviews at his house, you might be able to see some older pictures of it that way.

 

[beach]

I'll be opening the new trial thread in about 15 minutes. So gather your buckets and all personal items so y'all will be ready to move. :gavel:


Can anyone confirm -

Did I hear correctly that court will be dark on Wednesday? (SA election day, IIRC?)

 

[beach]

Does anyone have the layout of Oscar's home and where Frank stayed? Was he inside the house or in an outhouse?

Lots of diagrams, floorplans, photos, etc in this thread.



I'm not sure where Frank stayed though.

 

[Fuskier]

BBM - He said he had OP over for coffee from time to time, but he never had OP over for dinner, never went out for a drink with him, never had a long conversation with him, and did not know him in a social capacity. BUT, he was the first person OP called after shooting Reeva and he also went to her memorial at his uncle's house.

He minimized his relationship with OP. This makes him not credible. He clearly downplayed how close they are because wanted to come across as an unbiased witness.

Exactly! This is also my opinion.

 

[LauraT]

So....if Frank resided on the property why did Stander need the keys to come feed the dogs or whatever...

 

[Suthrnqt]

I get the feeling that Frank was a bit of a caretaker in name only.

It appears that OP looked after him quite well, but the guy didn't really do much, as you can see from the house repairs that needed doing.

<snipped by me>

I think, jmo, that Frank was a home health aide type of caretaker.

 

[Fuskier]

http://www.enca.com/south-africa/oscar-trial-estate-manager-weeps-he-testifies

"&#8220;He was torn apart. Broken. Desperate. Pleading&#8230;. And his commitment to save the young lady&#8217;s life&#8230; How he begged her to stay with him, how he begged God to keep her alive,&#8221; Stander said, weeping...."

BBM;
Who talks like that instead of decribing what he saw?
That sounds rehearsed and disingenuous.
MOO

Agreed. The language used is emotive, but where is the evidence of his commitment to save the young lady's life? It would have been better to give an example to support this claim IMO. This is a murder trial, not the retelling of a story at street level conversation.

 

[Apollo]

So....if Frank resided on the property why did Stander need the keys to come feed the dogs or whatever...

Good question. As a matter of fact, since Frank was residing on the property, why didn't he just feed the dogs?

 

[supernovaNic]

No but it's for sale. You have to send a $5,000 deposit just to see pictures of it.

I'll get right on it! LOL

He did some magazine interviews at his house, you might be able to see some older pictures of it that way.

Yeah, I'm looking at some of him taken in his home and of the outside of his home, but I can't figure it out. :scared:

 

[Apollo]

Agreed. The language used is emotive, but where is the evidence of his commitment to save the young lady's life? It would have been better to given an example to support this claim IMO.

Well.......he did tell her the towels, that would be good for nothing, were upstairs. Does that count?

 

[supernovaNic]

Maybe it's that brown door to the left?

ETA: Hey it didn't show my image. Maybe 'cuz it's a image from dailymail?

 

[Fuskier]

BBM - totally agree. Why would he be the first person OP called after murdering Reeva if he wasn't more than a casual acquaintance? And who invites someone they're not involved with socially to a private memorial for their dead girlfriend? I call BS on Stander's description of their relationship.

Exactly! They were going to be important for the Trial.