Trial Discussion Thread #34 - 14.05.06 Day 27

[Interested Bystander]

So we want to know (for starters), Mr Nel if you are reading this:-

What happened to the missing phone?
Why Netcare have had no input to the proceedings? (could be, of course, that the PT checked this out and it was a valid call, even though the ambulance did not turn up)
What happened to the handbag?
Where was Frankie in all this? Why was he not called as a witness? He was in. Saying he didn't hear anything is obviously rubbish.
Were any of the visitors left alone with OP (singly or together) other than Carise?
How did the bedroom door get damaged?
Inside-out-jeans and jeans outside - why?

 

[Cape Town Crim.]

That is because they awoke after the shooting. If they can sleep through gunfire, screaming is not going to wake them. :maddening:

And to add....the fact that a few, who seemed to have missed the entire incident bar one 'bang' - the fact that they didn't hear a woman scream, in no way PROVES that a woman didn't scream.

What they didn't hear....does not somehow magically erase what the Stipps, Burger and Johnson DID hear.

Only in Oscar world.

 

[katydid23]

7. added by me. - Roux hasn't announced to prove, but better would be.

OH OH

I am a middle child of three... I hope my destiny is not terrible....


[ however I am the only girl, so that changes the middle child syndrome]

 

[lisasalinger]

Re Annette Stipp's evidence



Lisa covers all of her evidence here

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/03/24/oscar-pistorius-trial-day-14/

New witness stuff for this week should be up by end of Wednesday. I was not able to watch last night but catching up now and wow, another crazy, and short, day!

It sounds like these two new ear witnesses heard very limited pieces of the incident and never went out on their balconies nor had open windows like the other witnesses (if I read correctly, need to watch). That makes a big difference!

And WTH, reading that OP muttered to Kim Myers in court today. So stupid & arrogant, if true!

Sounds like Wolmarans ran for the hills with Perumal.

Still can't get over Reeva's bag being taken from the scene... And the introduction of Frank.

J Stander was asked very directly who was at the scene a few times and he totally left out Baba, Frank and Ngelengthwa!!

I absolutely fail to understand how this obscenity of a defense case can be for real???? I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone.

 

[Giles]

Here is a link of Chris Greenland talking about the Stander's testimony yesterday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbKeS1kL5Q8

 

[thewagesofsin]

OH OH

I am a middle child of three... I hope my destiny is not terrible....


[ however I am the only girl, so that changes the middle child syndrome]

lol I'm the classic middle child. My older brother was the first grandkid for both sides of the family. Then came me. Then came my sister who was the first granddaughter in the family. I guess there's no hope for me. :laugh:

 

[Interested Bystander]

I guess I will give him the benefit of the doubt. If the majority of us thinks he is going to be spending a time in jail, I am sure he is seeing the same thing - a slow motion train wreck with him in it but rejoicing at any small advantage he may have.

Such a pity - his strong character created so much success for him that he was in cloud 9 but it is also the same thing that made him fall back to earth (and into jail).

Judging by Masipa past judgments, by the time he gets out, he will be a very old man and no one is going to remember who he is - just another disabled person who killed his gf.

Sounds like a movie in the making

Believe it or not the movie has already been started. I watched a programme at least a month ago about it.

 

[katydid23]

lol I'm the classic middle child. My older brother was the first grandkid for both sides of the family. Then came me. Then came my sister who was the first granddaughter in the family. I guess there's no hope for me. :laugh:

Oh no :floorlaugh: Oh, sorry, I mean....:hug:

 

[Hope4More]

Oscar doesn't live like most South Africans. We've been fortunate to have some wonderful posts by people who live there who describe that general fear but still struggle to accept Oscar's account simply because of where and how he lived. He lived in a veritable fortress with a remarkably low crime rate. If you'd like to search out these posts, the user's names are: liesbeth and Cape Town Crim., the latter is the person you responded to, of course. I think she probably has a better idea of what her nation believes than us reading media reports from other countries (jmo). Their insight is absolutely invaluable and very much appreciated.

JMO

With all due respect, I'm aware of OP's privileged life and home AND I find it believable that he still felt paranoid...witness his past behavior fearing intruders at his gated home.

Again with all due respect, no, I actually don't accept that a few posters here who live where this case took place necessarily have a better sense of what an entire nation is thinking or believing just because they live there, anymore than I believe my own views on cases represent the US.

I prefer to read/listen and evaluate for myself, and I trust my own research skills, logic, and years now of following trials, posting and participating here.

I can understand if some or many SA's or others anywhere else "struggle" to believe OP's account. I don't believe parts of it either. I just don't view every witness and every piece of evidence through an a priori assumption of guilt and bad character. JMO.

 

[lisasalinger]

I think it will be very important for Nel to map out and explain who heard what, and the possibilities of why.

For example, location of their rooms in their homes, open windows, out on balcony, other factors, etc

I will try to find time to do it as well this week.

 

[Viper]

New witness stuff for this week should be up by end of Wednesday. I was not able to watch last night but catching up now and wow, another crazy, and short, day!

It sounds like these two new ear witnesses heard very limited pieces of the incident and never went out on their balconies nor had open windows like the other witnesses (if I read correctly, need to watch). That makes a big difference!

And WTH, reading that OP muttered to Kim Myers in court today. So stupid & arrogant, if true!

Sounds like Wolmarans ran for the hills with Perumal.

Still can't get over Reeva's bag being taken from the scene... And the introduction of Frank.

J Stander was asked very directly who was at the scene a few times and he totally left out Baba, Frank and Ngelengthwa!!

I absolutely fail to understand how this obscenity of a defense case can be for real???? I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone.

I'm a big fan of The Twilight Zone. I keep seeing images of that episode where the wealthy patriarch that was about to die and leave his fortune to someone, presumably his family, made his four "faulted" younger relatives wear a unique mask. Great episode! Here is an image. One of them looks like Aimee and Oscar to me, the upside down frowning lips and facial expressions.

 

[Hope4More]

Websleuth101 = generalized paranoia = OP far more believable.
Websleuth201 = generalized paranoia + opened balcony doors while sleeping = OP is less believable.
WebsleuthX01 = generalized paranoia + opened balcony doors while sleeping + all the other evidence provided = OP is 100% not believable.

Websleuths 101 and 201 and 301 and 401 and 501.... Opinion does not equal fact; others' opinions should be treated with the same respect as you expect your own to be; respectful discussion of different opinions is what keeps Websleuths a desirable and worthwhile trialwatcher's site.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I'd like to know how OP et al thought his tale of feeling all around the bed for Reeva post-murder, on his stumps and carrying his cocked gun, squares with this pic of the floor he claims he walked through and would have felt Reeva had she been hiding there as he'd advised:

http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/art...s2197/MAIN-Inside-Oscar-Pistorius-bedroom.jpg

He'd have had to walk over the duvet and through/around the fan at the foot of the bed too, in the pitch dark, when he returned to the dark bathroom but made no mention of that iirc.

That is probably why there are the allegations of police tampering and moving things,but i think Nel has done quite alot to disprove that .
It will be interesting when it gets to the point of closing arguments when Nel finally states how he feels everything pans out .
I have been thinking of the bat and shooting sequence and trying to tie it in with when Nel wanted it put on the record about OP admitting that he crouched.
Does anyone think it may be possible that Nel will allege that OP was indeed on his stumps when they argued and he hit the toilet door with the cricket bat but put his legs on when he went to get the gun before shooting Reeva. If Nel thought this was the case it would add to premeditation ?
If not I am not sure why he would have put it on the record about the crouching .

 

[katydid23]

With all due respect, I'm aware of OP's privileged life and home AND I find it believable that he still felt paranoid...witness his past behavior fearing intruders at his gated home.

Again with all due respect, no, I actually don't accept that a few posters here who live where this case took place necessarily have a better sense of what an entire nation is thinking or believing just because they live there, anymore than I believe my own views on cases represent the US.

I prefer to read/listen and evaluate for myself, and I trust my own research skills, logic, and years now of following trials, posting and participating here.

I can understand if some or many SA's or others anywhere else "struggle" to believe OP's account. I don't believe parts of it either. I just don't view every witness and every piece of evidence through an a priori assumption of guilt and bad character. JMO.

we have lived in a suburb of Los Angeles for 30 years. So we have always been paranoid about crime and/or home invasion. Understandably so. And we have a loaded Glock in the bedroom. [our kids are grown.]

But that doesn't mean I would shoot blindly through a bathroom door without verifying where my husband was at the time. That makes no sense, no matter how fearful I was about intruders.

As for OP being paranoid, that is hard for me to completely accept. He went to sleep with the sliding balcony doors open. He didn't bother to check that the ladders were put away. And he neglected to see if his home alarm was functioning for months. So how paranoid could he really have been?

I KNOW some paranoid people. They don't sleep with open sliding glass doors in the bedroom and forget to fix the alarm for months at a time. :waitasec:

 

[BritsKate]

With all due respect, I'm aware of OP's privileged life and home AND I find it believable that he still felt paranoid...witness his past behavior fearing intruders at his gated home.

Again with all due respect, no, I actually don't accept that a few posters here who live where this case took place necessarily have a better sense of what an entire nation is thinking or believing just because they live there, anymore than I believe my own views on cases represent the US.

I prefer to read/listen and evaluate for myself, and I trust my own research skills, logic, and years now of following trials, posting and participating here.

I can understand if some or many SA's or others anywhere else "struggle" to believe OP's account. I don't believe parts of it either. I just don't view every witness and every piece of evidence through an a priori assumption of guilt and bad character. JMO.

I edited my post because I was concerned I sounded catty and really didn't mean to. Of course, we all base our opinions on many factors but I believe that posters who are 'in the thick of it' are influenced by factors we don't have access to. I see many assumptions made about other countries by people who have never even visited them. Having emigrated, I'm very sensitive to it...as such, I find the insight of people actually there absolutely irreplaceable.

JMO and FWIW

 

[BritsKate]

The South African Paralympian who is on trial for Steenkamp's murder, flatly denied speaking to Kim Myers but witnesses, including a police officer, claimed they heard Pistorius as he left the dock during an adjournment. A complaint was lodged with South Africa's national prosecuting authority.

Asked why the athlete might have approached his client, Levitt suggested Pistorius may have been upset by interviews the Myers had previously given to the media in which they expressed concern about the intensity of his relationship with Steenkamp. "Reeva was living with the Myers and they did make statements – he might be upset because of what they said, might have the slanted view that they're against him."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nies-trying-intimidate-reeva-steenkamp-friend

 

[Deleted member 102539]

OH OH

I am a middle child of three... I hope my destiny is not terrible....


[ however I am the only girl, so that changes the middle child syndrome]

No, no! If you don't need Roux or colleagues, then you are psychologically alright and okay and you will have a wonderful future!

 

[katydid23]

No, no! If you don't need Roux or colleagues, then you are psychologically alright and okay and you will have a wonderful future!

Ok, that's good. Anyway, I just turned 61. My life has been pretty damned good so far. lol:loveyou:

 

[Zinn]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nies-trying-intimidate-reeva-steenkamp-friend

From the link: Police warrant officer Barend van Staden confirmed that he had heard Pistorius say: "How can you sleep at night?" and reported it to the chief prosecutor, Gerrie Nel.

 

[sleuth-d-]

So we want to know (for starters), Mr Nell if you are reading this:-

What happened to the missing phone?
Why Netcare have had no input to the proceedings? (could be, of course, that the PT checked this out and it was a valid call, even though the ambulance did not turn up)
What happened to the handbag?
Where was Frankie in all this? Why was he not called as a witness? He was in. Saying he didn't hear anything is obviously rubbish.
Were any of the visitors left alone with OP (singly or together) other than Carise?
How did the bedroom door get damaged?

if he has a spare moment, could he also clear up the inside inside out jeans and the outside not inside out jeans. ty.