Trial Discussion Thread #34 - 14.05.06 Day 27

[lithgow1]

But he wasn't sure what was happening or if there was even anyone in his house and his wife had woken him. OP heard noises in his bathroom, only attributable to human manipulation and went into fight or flight.

So he fought eh. I think South African law believes you've committed a crime if you choose 'fight' above 'flight' when the latter is an option.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Mrs. N. Short conversation with husband. I was awake.

Nel: You listened for other sounds.

I wasn't waiting for other sounds.

Nel: You heard help help help.

Yes.

Nel: You heard man crying?

Yes.

Nel: No other bangs.

No.

Nel: Bang sounds that you heard, what can you remember of the sound?

There's no other way I can explain, just a bang sound.

Dispute between counsel re time of sounds - Stipp.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I don't think it could be the second set because of his time line with the fixed time of his call to security at 3:16 which he only did after checking the house and discussing with wife whether to go or not go. I don't think there would be time after the second set if as is argued the second set was around 3:15 to 3:17.

IIRC Mrs stipp's stated that the second set of noises were at 3.17 but her clock is between 3 to 4 mins fast so that puts the shooting at 3.13 to 3.14 to I would say there was just enough time to make a quick check of a house and then make a call.

 

[zwiebel]

NW: They are the only sounds I heard.

No further questions for this witness.

 

[minor4th]

Next witness is on her way. I believe that it is the neighbor on the other side of OP

 

[zwiebel]

Roux explains the next witness 'is a mother of children' which is why she is only 'on her way' and not actually in court, Lol.

He says defence case will end next Tuesday!

 

[zwiebel]

Judge: I hope you're quite correct when you say next Tuesday.

 

[AlexUK]

Tut! Wot a shambles!!

 

[MeeBee]

So he fought eh. I think South African law believes you've committed a crime if you choose 'fight' above 'flight' when the latter is an option.

The nuances of the law in SA has been difficult for the board to interpret and nail down. So unless there is an SA lawyer around, we'll just have to wait and see. I do remember someone posting something from an SA lawyer once that said he believes OP coils get CH.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Roux: Next witness is a mother of children. We're within timeframe. Believes we may end defence case by Tuesday next week. Only one more witness today.

Masipa. That's confidence.

Roux can't guarantee but it's fairly accurate.

30 minute adjournment.

 

[minor4th]

I think Roux expected Nel's cross examinations to be much longer than they have been for the last few witnesses

 

[zwiebel]

Roux has asked for and been granted half an hour. Why on earth didn't they just take an early lunch?

 

[ColonelMustard]

whoa.. she does a demonstation of a scream

LOL Really lame.

 

[MeeBee]

IIRC Mrs stipp's stated that the second set of noises were at 3.17 but her clock is between 3 to 4 mins fast so that puts the shooting at 3.13 to 3.14 to I would say there was just enough time to make a quick check of a house and then make a call.

I agree.

 

[G.bng]

Checked my notes and you are right. Dr Stipp heard 3 loud bangs, screaming female, phone calls, 3 loud bangs, man calling help x 3, then saw man moving across bathroom.

All getting so very complicated. Is everyone sure Stipp heard "help, help, help" both before and after last set of bangs ? I only recall him hearing them once before the last bangs ? Anyone got a link to the parts of his testimony that notes he heard two sets ?

 

[patCee]

IIRC, that was the testimony of Mrs. Stipps also, was it not? (except for the part about someone moving in the bathroom)

I'm less clear re Mrs S and don't have her hearing the help x 3, would need to check her evidence at some later time.

 

[sleuth-d-]

roux, receiving daily fees in the thousands, can't organise a cab to get a witness to the court in good time. wtf

 

[Trooper]

Roux is very confident about finishing up by next Tuesday... he is grovelling before Judge Masipa, for a 1/2 hour adjournment, due to a witness having to be picked up from somewhere, another neighbour, a woman, I gathered.. Masipa is quite nice to Roux, understands his dilemma , wants to pin Roux down to this Tuesday business, like a hawk, Roux is cracking up a bit, says.. well. I think, I am almost sure , milady, I am nearly positive I can finish up by then.. How positive, asks Masipa..

 

[MeeBee]

roux, receiving daily fees in the thousands, can't organise a cab to get a witness to the court in good time. wtf

I think it was implied that she is a mother and had other things to take care of before heading to court.

 

[G.bng]

It is interesting that apparently ultra- cautious, even paranoid OP left his balcony doors open at night, yet on the same estate the N's were locking their interior doors at night, and just peeping through curtains from unlit rooms at suspicious noise.

It shows very different perceptions of safety, and different reactions to perceived threats too.

And food for thought... MN is black and OP white.