Trial Discussion Thread #34 - 14.05.06 Day 27

[Interested Bystander]

Apparently not for OP. He never checked with Reeva to see if she heard anything when he heard the 'intruders'.

LOL Oscar is a law unto himself.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I think I'm right on this - the bedroom balcony is next to the N's house, and the toilet is on the direct opposite side of the house; it's back windows face the Stipps'

Missed some parts of testimony so am not sure of layouts .
As you look at OP's house from the road front which side is Mr N's house on ?
Also do you know where their bedroom was in relation to OP's bathroom ?
TIA

 

[G.bng]

IIRC Mrs stipp's stated that the second set of noises were at 3.17 but her clock is between 3 to 4 mins fast so that puts the shooting at 3.13 to 3.14 to I would say there was just enough time to make a quick check of a house and then make a call.

Yes, I forgot about those 3-4 mins fast. But still only 2 mins to check everything and have an argument, look out of the balcony (I think he said that), peer through the blinds, etc. so yes, I think he could fit it in being quick.

 

[Suthrnqt]

Exactly, this is how normal people react, the closest people to them are checked first before brandishing a gun willy - nilly and shooting through toilet doors at noises. OP especially so, since he had gun safety training and also apparently had near misses in the past in which case he should have been hyperaware.

That's exactly what I was trying to convey. :thumbup:

 

[MeeBee]

Certainly, Judge Masipa has decisions to make, but her decisions are bound and binded by the parameters set by the Govt Of the Republic of South Africa. she just cant hive off into unknown and unregulated areas of her own. The parameters set for Judge Masipa's decision are quite clear, and transparent. nothing mysterious about them at all.

The running meme is that if Masipa finds OP's version as true then she will give him murder. Case closed. That is simply not true. She will have to decide if OP behaved as a reasonable person then at that point decide his level culpability and either give him murder, CH, or an acquittal. If she finds his version. She has a law to abide by, of course, but she also needs to use her own subjective reasoning. Not really that hard to understand...

 

[ColonelMustard]

I wouldn't presume to speak for the Colonel, but I see it as showing that unlike Pistorius, all the other people on hearing noises in the night MADE SURE their loved ones were safe. Didn't grab a gun and go storming down a passageway in the darkness.

Exactly. Great minds think alike!

 

[james83]

All logic suggests
Van Der Merwe heard 2nd sounds(4 bangs, silence,crying)
Carice Stander heard 2nd sounds(Only heard a man shout helpx3)
The nhglenthwa's heard 2nd sound's( heard man crying)

Still IMO the only people who heard the first sound's happened to be right opposite Oscar's bathroom.

 

[sleuth-d-]

I think it was implied that she is a mother and had other things to take care of before heading to court.

this is the trial in respect of another woman losing her life. this witness has agreed to testify. has she no sense of gravitas, or public duty? for this one day, i would expect her to make some alternate plans for these extraordinary circumstances.

 

[ColonelMustard]

.. and yet OP himself said the 'help, help, help' was between the two sets of bangs (i.e. when he was running around after he shot Reeva, but before going to bang the door in with the cricket bat) .. so Mrs N's testimony doesn't even fit with what he testified, I seriously can't believe she didn't hear the second lot of bangs and yet could hear a man crying loudly.

The whole thing is ridiculous. If he really wanted to get in there fast all he had to do was shoot the lock off of the toilet door.

No more baloney about needing a bat.

 

[MeeBee]

this is the trial in respect of another woman losing her life. this witness has agreed to testify. has she no sense of gravitas, or public duty? for this one day, i would expect her to make some alternate plans for these extraordinary circumstances.

Perhaps she has no other way. Perhaps she's single and has no family around to help. I understand this trial is very important so people out there, but witness' lives don't stop up until they testify. She's only supposed to testify for a day. A lot of assumptions are being made about someone we don't even know.

 

[ColonelMustard]

The order of events and the credibility is what Masipa will be tasked to unravel. And I don't see it is going to be at all easy so she may never manage to tally them all up and either discard it all or use some other logic to work it out. jmo

That's why "they" say it will take at least until July 'til they have the verdict.

 

[Trooper]

The running meme is that if Masipa finds OP's version as true then she will give him murder. Case closed. That is simply not true. She will have to decide if OP behaved as a reasonable person then at that point decide his level culpability and either give him murder, CH, or an acquittal. If she finds his version. She has a law to abide by, of course, but she also needs to use her own subjective reasoning. Not really that hard to understand...

well. as you say, you don't understand SA law, so its rather pointless debating the point with you.. there are quite a few sites where you could get a bit of an understanding of it, easy to find.. perhaps then, might be more useful to you and to me..

 

[G.bng]

The nuances of the law in SA has been difficult for the board to interpret and nail down. So unless there is an SA lawyer around, we'll just have to wait and see. I do remember someone posting something from an SA lawyer once that said he believes OP coils get CH.

There are quite a few of us that think CH. I have read as much as I can find on SA law and IMO it seems the most likely but then it could be murder even if Masipa found he shot without reasonable cause or in reasonable response at a burglar.

 

[sleuth-d-]

The next witness is going to arrive lunch time. I doubt they will take lunch just as she arrives. But they can't go all day without food so....

My guess is, we will hear the next witness and by 1 or 2pm, court will adjourn for the day again.

does anyone get the feeling roux is trying to 'string out' the defence...

they have just had almost two weeks to schedule witness appointment times.

 

[zwiebel]

Apparently Roux also said 'there were problems with parking'? to explain the lateness of the next witness.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/06/oscar-pistorius-trial-murder-reeva-steenkamp-6-may

 

[Cherwell]

I think I'm right on this - the bedroom balcony is next to the N's house, and the toilet is on the direct opposite side of the house; it's back windows face the Stipps'

I think you have the next door neighbours transposed. Looking at the front of OP's house, Mike N's house is to the left, and Kenny M's house to the right. OP's bedroom balcony faces to the right. It is the smaller balcony nearer to the rear of the house.

That's assuming all the plans I have seen are correct.

 

[Peliman]

And UK law, and most, if not all, of European countries law from what I read... and not sure Canada, NZ and Aussie land are not the same too... if correct that would just leave the US as the anomaly !

The US is an anomaly of gun laws, each guided by the individual states laws. Some states have heavy restrictions on guns, like Illinois but have the highest rates of gun crime. While other states follow the Castle law or some version of it regarding their laws. Also known as stand your ground laws instead of retreat in half the US states.

PS: Not meant to start a gun control debate, just a response right or wrong.

 

[Cherwell]

I knew that the BR faced the front, don't know what I was thinking this morning guess it is because I haven't been to bed yet. I think it was that photo shown this morning that threw me off thinking this was the back of the houses for some reason.

The bedroom and balcony face to the right of the house. Not the front.
Actually looking more closely they have a more oblique aspect, not face on to the right - more like 2 o'clock if you think of it as a clock face. I will try to find a picture.

 

[MeeBee]

well. as you say, you don't understand SA law, so its rather pointless debating the point with you.. there are quite a few sites where you could get a bit of an understanding of it, easy to find.. perhaps then, might be more useful to you and to me..

I have done that and that's why I know what I'm saying is true.

And, no offense intended, but you yourself have demonstrated a lack of understanding of what you've read and the law itself in the past, way back when we were discussing the SA constitution. So I'm reluctant to believe you've got it all figured out when I don't. Even lawyers in SA have different interpretations and opinions of the outcome of this trial based around the same SA law. It's not difficult to understand.

 

[Freya1977]

I think I'm right on this - the bedroom balcony is next to the N's house, and the toilet is on the direct opposite side of the house; it's back windows face the Stipps'

No, it's the other way. Looking at the front of Oscar's house, his bedroom balcony is in the right side of the house. This morning's witness' house is on the left.