Trial Discussion Thread #34 - 14.05.06 Day 27

[sleuth-d-]

All three witness state that they only heard a man. Not a woman.
All three say they heard the wailing. Not screaming.

they all heard the aftermath. they didn't hear shots... they heard op crying, not screaming. hopefully more relevance will be placed on what op did with the gun and the bat, and not how loudly he cried afterwards. moo.

 

[lithgow1]

For those of you with withdrawal symptoms WhoopWhoop are about to re run last night's legal round table. You can find it here.

http://whoopwhoop.tv/pistoriusradio.htm

Thanks a lot for that - this will be interesting

 

[swissmonster]

Good afternoon from Geneva - thanks for these amazing posts. Too much work to plug in hearphone so heard nothing. Will use my lunch break and catch up on rest tonight. Another late one I foresee. Thanks so much!!

 

[Jake18]

So a man was crying at about 3.20, that was a pointless witness, felt like they were filling the time out with that one.

I can see why Nel hasn't wasted much time on cross with them. There's nothing particularly supportive of OP's "version". They awoke after (or, at some level to) the loudest bangs (the shots) and then heard OP's wails after he realised what he'd done in his rage. Where did his 15 minutes of screaming whilst traversing the corridors in the house go?

 

[Mr Fossil]

Dr Stipp heard "help, help, help" after both sets of bangs (which has always made more sense to me). This has been supported by Mrs N's evidence who most probably heard the last bang of the second set. The other 'post event' defence witnesses today haven't contradicted this. They didn't hear anything except OP crying or wailing. But the sequence is inconsistent with OP's version ("help, help, help" before using the cricket bat to break the door - logically the second set of bangs in his version). I know who I believe and I get the impression that the defence witnesses have said nothing to worry Nel and the prosecution version of events.

 

[liesbeth]

Yes, and remember that Nel stopped his cross examination of OP just at that point where OP took Reeva down the stairs and people started arriving? The PT are not interested in what happened from that point onwards, imo.

That is true. But I suspect Oscar's version from then on suits the prosecution's argument. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[jay-jay]

Not what I said...

She has factors to weigh. Him being without his legs and feeling vulnerable is one of them.

Watch this video if you get time .. these are not the words of a man who is vulnerable because of not having full legs -->> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3nuFArz0Rk

 

[Trooper]

I agree, these witness's are meaningless in the grand scheme.
What the defence needed was someone to say they heard a man shouting/crying/screaming followed by a set of bangs.
All we have had so far is Oscar was crying after both set's of sound's and we already knew that.

and we know there are 6 sounds that have been testified to, with evidence.. the 4 shots, 3 in Reevas body, and the ricochet bullet, 2 cricket bat marks on the door, with the corresponding marks of the door on the bat.. even though Oscar desperately wants it to be 3 or 4 cricket bangs.

these witnesses didn't move the thing forward for Oscar in any way whatsoever..

 

[Forensics]

I am not sure what the defense got out of all that...other than the witnesses only hearing Oscar's screaming/crying/wailing and not a woman's voice...but they were only awake for the aftermath and Reeva was dying by then. Therefore their evidence fits in with the prosecution's just as much as it does the defense. Furthermore, none said Oscar sounded like a woman... so what was all that palava about?

 

[zwiebel]

Does anyone know if the witnesses were likely to have been asked in advance to give demonstrations of the cries they heard, or if they just did these on impulse?

 

[swissmonster]

mr N one thing that struck him about Reeva... I raised my hand to greet her, she just opened her arms and hugged me.. I could see the person that she was..

That image in my mind just gives shivers. ANY person killed is a tragedy, but to hear this and imagining her doing it... it's all so very very sad.

 

[Murphys_Law]

In a nutshell: Thus far, Roux has called 4 ear witnesses NONE of whom are unable to substantiate OP's version or refute the State's version, as the human sounds they heard (a male crying) happened after the killing, or as in the case of Mrs. Nhlengetha's after a bang.

 

[liesbeth]

they all heard the aftermath. they didn't hear shots... they heard op crying, not screaming. hopefully more relevance will be placed on what op did with the gun and the bat, and not how loudly he cried afterwards. moo.

My point exactly.

Oscar's defense is that he sounds like a woman when he is distressed. All these witnesses say his voice was high pitched, but they could hear it was a male voice.

 

[Trooper]

Does anyone know if the witnesses were likely to have been asked in advance to give demonstrations of the cries they heard, or if they just did these on impulse?

bit suspicious that there were two of them giving the 'scream'.. both women. I noticed Roux didn't ask Mister N to give us a scream.

 

[G.bng]

Based on what I've read, yes it could be either, depending on how hard Masipa thinks she needs to be on OP. I'm really not sure how this will go. SA is so different.

I agree most but not sure Masipa is allowed to "think" about how hard she needs to be except when sentencing, which despite there being mandatory sentencing there is still discretion for a judge to manoeuvre whether to up and even lower a mandatory sentence.

 

[soozieqtips]

bit suspicious that there were two of them giving the 'scream'.. both women. I noticed Roux didn't ask Mister N to give us a scream.

Surely they should have got the male witnesses to show how OP screamed 'like a woman', not the female witnesses!

 

[MeeBee]

My point exactly.

Oscar's defense is that he sounds like a woman when he is distressed. All these witnesses say his voice was high pitched, but they could hear it was a male voice.

But again Mrs. VDM heard these same cries and thought it was a woman. She had to be corrected. So the prosecution witness gave us two things: a. He can potentially sound like a woman when under duress and b. his crying was low enough that his pitch and voice could be correctly identified by someone close or someone who'd heard him speak before. Their defense is that the screaming before the second set of bangs was OP and the other witnesses thought it was a woman. Still has not been disproven.

 

[jay-jay]

Well Roux had to make sure they sounded like women!

It's crazy.

.. and just a tad sneaky ..

 

[BritsKate]

What a damp squib of a day! What use are these witnesses if none of them heard the shots, and none of them can prove OP screamed like a woman? And as for Frank, who was actually staying in a room next to the kitchen on the night Reeva was murdered, I can't understand why he wasn't subpoenaed. I don't believe he heard nothing. That's just too incredulous. So he probably heard exactly what happened, but doesn't want to risk damning OP. But even so, he would have been an extremely important witness. Any chance he was warned off from testifying?

RBBM

I was thinking the same. It seems very contrived. A way of highlighting the 'torment' of OP and taking a jab at SAPS. We learned:

Oscar was highly emotional after shooting Reeva, which doesn't mean he didn't intend to shoot her.

SAPS were rude in informally approaching a witness rather than requesting a formal interview with said witness.

A man, that sounded like a man but high-pitched, was heard crying.

One bang was heard followed by a man crying for help that sounded like a man.

Practically everyone else in the universe asks their significant other for confirmation when they hear an unusual noise in the night.

 

[liesbeth]

What I find interesting is Mr. Mike N's testimony about how he felt when he saw Reeva. It was traumatic and you could hear the horror in his voice.

But yesterday both Mr Stander and Ms Stander almost brushed Reeva aside. Their emotion and pity were reserved for Oscar, not Reeva.