Trial Discussion Thread #34 - 14.05.06 Day 27

[MeeBee]

My heart broke a little more for her when I heard that. It takes some kind of faith in human nature to hug a stranger who you have only just met, in everyday circumstances.

No wonder June smiled when she heard his testimony though. It was a very moving tribute to her daughter, far more than anything OP's said about her, I think.

BBM: Well said. So true, zwiebel.

 

[wb180]

Can someone supportive of OP defense tell me what's the use of these witnesses? They don't seem to add anything to Oscar case regarding self defense or accidental shooting?

 

[sleuth-d-]

But again Mrs. VDM heard these same cries and thought it was a woman. She had to be corrected. So the prosecution witness gave us two things: a. He can potentially sound like a woman when under duress and b. his crying was low enough that his pitch and voice could be correctly identified by someone close or someone who'd heard him speak before. Their defense is that the screaming before the second set of bangs was OP and the other witnesses thought it was a woman. Still has not been disproven.

mrs vdm also heard one side of an 'argument' starting at just before 2am and lasting on and off for an hour. when op said he was asleep. if you are entertaining her evidence, how do you account for those noises?

 

[swissmonster]

Mr. Raymond Nhlengethwa Oscar's neighbour is on the stand.

He says Oscar introduced Reeva to him as his "fiancée."

His wife woke him up and said she heard a bang, but she wasn't sure if it was inside or outside the house.

He investigated his house and checked his daughter's room and the rest of the house. The rooms. Downstairs. The whole house. He told his wife the noise must have been from outside.

Note: Remember in Sotho the pronoun "he and she" is interchangeable. But not man and woman.

So they checked through the blinds outside. He heard a person crying very loud "for danger." A very high pitched voice in need of help. He heard no, please, please, no.

Edit: Later he went to Oscar's house and heard Oscar crying. The voice not the same as the other voice, it was lower.

Hi Liesbeth I'm just catching up from this morning so sorry if this has already been discussed: are we to led to believe that RS was crying (begging) NO PLEASE NO. OMG Heart just skipped a beat.

 

[BritsKate]

So #OscarPistorius allegedly whispered to one of Reeva's friends, Kim Myers, in court today: "How do you sleep at night?"

The incident happened in the last adjournment, when Pistorius was leaving the dock. Kim Myers was a close friend of Reeva's

Desi Myers is "furious" about the fact that #OscarPistorius allegedly said "How do you sleep at night?" to her daughter Kim

https://twitter.com/CharlduPlessc

 

[MeeBee]

mrs vdm also heard one side of an 'argument' starting at just before 2am and lasting on and off for an hour. when op said he was asleep. if you are entertaining her evidence, how do you account for those noises?

That there is absolutely no proof she heard Reeva and Oscar arguing.

 

[Val1]

is it possible there were shouts for help between the two sets of bangs, and then further shouts for help after?

Of course there could have been, the problem for OP though is that the calls for help in between would have been those from RS, the ones where OP was also heard calling help(re iirc "intermingled" voices) in what I believe was also described as an embarrassed(imo, mocking) tone.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Hey, thanks MUCH for this. It was VERY interesting!

There is continued discussion live today after the round table (which is recorded the night before but can also be listened to live via a pay scheme). This is where knowledgeable lawyers, doctors, etc are interviewed and often have some very interesting and salient input. It usually goes on for 3 hours or so.

I am so sorry I didn't mention it earlier. I have been listening the whole trial and it can be very informative. Just occasionally one gets, IMO, someone who has an OP bias but it is also good to hear what they have to say in order to balance the argument.

 

[katydid23]

And if the fact that only the women were demonstrating was just a coincidence?

Roux, I think, is desperate. So far he's promised but hasn't delivered a double tap theory, a head shot last theory and a cricket bat on door sounding as loud as gunshots theory (Dixon's sound fiddling notwithstanding). He also promised email evidence of Sam Taylor's infidelity and I don't think that was forthcoming.

However, several barking dogs HAVE been produced.

None of that, in my opinion, negates the gunshots, Reeva screaming and the "intermingled" voices Dr Stipp heard.

BBM

Thank You. I was just going to post that list. I was trying to remember all of the 'promises' that Roux made during that State's case.

He said that the defense would present evidence PROVING that :

1. RS never screamed because the headshot was the first shot

2. OP sounds just like a woman when he screams, and the screams the 5 witnesses heard were actually OP screaming

3. The sounds of the cricket bat are indistinguishable from the sounds of gunshots

4. Something about double taps, but it was murky

Any other promises he has left to prove before Tuesday?

 

[Giles]

So #OscarPistorius allegedly whispered to one of Reeva's friends, Kim Myers, in court today: "How do you sleep at night?"

The incident happened in the last adjournment, when Pistorius was leaving the dock. Kim Myers was a close friend of Reeva's

Desi Myers is "furious" about the fact that #OscarPistorius allegedly said "How do you sleep at night?" to her daughter Kim

https://twitter.com/CharlduPlessc

I don't understand this. Why would he say this to her? It would make more sense if she'd said this to him. He killed her friend.

 

[BritsKate]

A source close to the prosecution told City Press that he hoped Myers had been advised to open a charge of intimidation against Pistorius over the incident.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscar-pistorius-reevas-friend-sleep-night/

 

[whiterum]

Dr Stipp heard "help, help, help" after both sets of bangs (which has always made more sense to me). This has been supported by Mrs N's evidence who most probably heard the last bang of the second set. The other 'post event' defence witnesses today haven't contradicted this. They didn't hear anything except OP crying or wailing. But the sequence is inconsistent with OP's version ("help, help, help" before using the cricket bat to break the door - logically the second set of bangs in his version). I know who I believe and I get the impression that the defence witnesses have said nothing to worry Nel and the prosecution version of events.

I agree, OP said in his affidavit that he went out to the balcony and shouted help, help, help after the shots and before he bashed the door with a bat. So IMO the last sound that awoke this couple could have been the last of the shots meaning the shots came after bat since they only heard one bang before and no further bangs after OP's help,help,help. By that time after the last shot RS was as good as dead, hence no woman screaming was heard by these neighbours after that last bang/ gunshot. Then they heard OP's help, help,help, coming after he had killed Reeva hence his loud crying the close neighbours heard.

 

[sleuth-d-]

Nel is obviously very confident, imo .. he doesn't feel the need to ask them very many questions.

nel clearly stated to op [and the court] that he has no problem with events after op was seen by others.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Anyone think Roux has thrown in the towel? Today's witness have IMO done nothing except bolster the PT case (though not by much).

 

[BritsKate]

I don't understand this. Why would he say this to her? It would make more sense if she'd said this to him. He killed her friend.

Oscar is the perpetual victim though.

According to the media link I posted, Kim was quite visibly shaken. I really hope she does pursue charges so it doesn't happen again.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Did he say who it was?

Not that I heard, only that it was another mother with children I think.

 

[Val1]

All getting so very complicated. Is everyone sure Stipp heard "help, help, help" both before and after last set of bangs ? I only recall him hearing them once before the last bangs ? Anyone got a link to the parts of his testimony that notes he heard two sets ?

Not a direct link to his testimony but the lisasalinger's blog that has a pretty good summary of it. http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/03/06/oscar-pistorius-trial-day-4/ Go about half way down the page for the reference to the "intermingled" voices, or do a find on the page for it.

 

[lithgow1]

next up will be defence and their 'burden of proof' re OP screaming like woman. Says defence suggested this so need to show this (if i heard correct)

http://whoopwhoop.tv/pistoriusradio.htm

sorry to keep harping on this (maybe everyone already listening!) but it is good to hear these opinions from people who know what they are talking about - if i listen to them closely maybe i will too!

 

[screecher]

Mr. Raymond Nhlengethwa Oscar's neighbour is on the stand.

He says Oscar introduced Reeva to him as his "fiancée."

His wife woke him up and said she heard a bang, but she wasn't sure if it was inside or outside the house.

He investigated his house and checked his daughter's room and the rest of the house. The rooms. Downstairs. The whole house. He told his wife the noise must have been from outside.

Note: Remember in Sotho the pronoun "he and she" is interchangeable. But not man and woman.

So they checked through the blinds outside. He heard a person crying very loud "for danger." A very high pitched voice in need of help. He heard no, please, please, no.

Edit: Later he went to Oscar's house and heard Oscar crying. The voice not the same as the other voice, it was lower.

Catching up...

Was he asked if he was carrying a weapon and frantic with fear whilst checking his house out?

Poor, poor Reeva.

 

[jay-jay]

Oscar is the perpetual victim though.

According to the media link I posted, Kim was quite visibly shaken. I really hope she does pursue charges so it doesn't happen again.

I hope so too .. if true, then it is absolutely sickening behaviour from him .. (then again, it's exactly the type of behaviour I would expect from someone like that and in that respect it really does not surprise me).