Trial Discussion Thread #34 - 14.05.06 Day 27

[Suthrnqt]

I hope so too .. if true, then it is absolutely sickening behaviour from him .. (then again, it's exactly the type of behaviour I would expect from someone like that and in that respect it really does not surprise me).

He is a vile human being. jmo

 

[MeeBee]

The state's case. Crim mentioned that if the defense introduces knew evidence then the state has the option to reopen its case.

As in, re-open case in this trial, like a rebuttal?

 

[Cape Town Crim.]

next up possibiltiy of state reopening case!

http://whoopwhoop.tv/pistoriusradio.htm

this has just been suggested

It was always going to happen IMHO. And quite rightly so.

Looking forward to the state recalling a few witnesses etc. Should be good knowing what we now do....

 

[Jake18]

The contrast between the DT and the PT with their handling of each others' witnesses is telling, I think. The ear witness testimony for the PT was so damaging for the DT it then all became about hands holding back curtains, people choosing to amend statements, couples having similar stories etc etc. All with the theatrics of "This cannot be!" and lots of head shaking. Yet Nel has just let the DT witnesses tell their stories. He has clarified a few issues and generally let them be. He is obviously feeling confidant.

 

[lithgow1]

Which case?

their case based on issues of trip to gun seller with ex Sam (photo evidence) plus something to do with phone in kitchen - one or two q's re this that seem out of line and nel will want to question.

 

[MeeBee]

It was always going to happen IMHO. And quite rightly so.

Looking forward to the state recalling a few witnesses etc. Should be good knowing what we now do....

Ok, I see. Interesting.

What new evidence has been introduced.

 

[Suthrnqt]

It was always going to happen IMHO. And quite rightly so.

Looking forward to the state recalling a few witnesses etc. Should be good knowing what we now do....

IIRC, you brought up this possibility weeks ago. Good call, Crim. :loveyou:

 

[lithgow1]

From 8 Pm tonight is all kinds of panel discussions, ballistic and forensic experts, psychologist, person in court today etc. Plus stuff thru afternoon. Glad i'm in same time zone! This is best source Interested Bystander.!

 

[Cape Town Crim.]

The state's case. Crim mentioned that if the defense introduces knew (edit: knew? damn spellcheck! I meant new) new evidence then the state has the option to reopen its case.

I believe Gerrie had already decided to apply to re-open the state's case when the court jester Dixon was on the stand. (Just my opinion of course.....)

As soon as the defense 'psychologist' is done it will be a given.

The state have to rebut THIS specific expert at all costs. Considering the state have ZERO access to anything the defense will offer in terms of 'who, what and when' - their right to apply to re-open their case is recognized. M'lady will use her, and her discretion alone when deciding to grant or not.

It can't be denied in this instance though - especially once a psychiatric expert or 'exert in vulnerability' has testified for the DT.

In fact, I believe the ballistician Wolmarans will also warrant a re-opening of the state's case based on whatever 'magic' he is going to dish up.

I fully expect Capt Mangena to be recalled to the stand at some stage.

I have found the defense's effort to be rather poor to date. In terms of what they have offered as an alternative to the PT's version.

So far they have provided zero to bring anything the PT has put forward into any sort of reasonable doubt. They need to blow the state's case out of the water, and all they have done is let off a few weak wind bubbles.

Just my opinion. :blushing:

 

[Interested Bystander]

Greetings all :seeya:

I haven't been able to log on much due to that hideous thing they call 'work'. Arghhhh.

I'm going to try and catch up on all the threads and points of discussion etc.

Not sure of this has been shared here yet; but I thought it would certainly interest you.

Is Oscar going to be in a little more of the brown, smelly stuff?

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscar-pistorius-reevas-friend-sleep-night/

I would say this is serious enough to warrant a little hoohah.

This girl hasn't even been called as a witness - what is the matter with OP. Very bad taste.

To me it serves to confirm that OP is living in LaLa Land and believes his own story even though there are so many obvious reasons why it is unbelievable.

 

[44ALLAN]

Oh my lord. We now have women trying to sound like oscar sounding like a woman.

LOL...............you really couldn't make this stuff up :floorlaugh:

 

[G.bng]

So let's play M'lady. Do you think he acted as a 'reasonable person'.

I don't, not in the least, not in any of the events up to and even beyond the shooting.

If the purposeful murder of Reeva is not proven BARD to Masipa, which IMHO it hasn't been, in the first instance, following the legal flow chart that will lead Masipa to a verdict in respect of a perceived intruder, she will need to judge OP's state of mind as a subjective test so who knows which way she may go. I will certainly not be laying any bets as to the result as yet.

 

[Interested Bystander]

From 8 Pm tonight is all kinds of panel discussions, ballistic and forensic experts, psychologist, person in court today etc. Plus stuff thru afternoon. Glad i'm in same time zone! This is best source Interested Bystander.!

Great you are enjoying it.

I erroneously pointed out that this was a possible broadcast behind a paywall. I think my mind must have been elsewhere. The radio channel is free. The TV Channel I paid up for is something else. Apologies.

 

[BritsKate]

If it's not true, it certainly wouldn't be the first time the SA media jumped the gun reporting something that is untrue without having all the facts first. Yeah, really not buying it. It doesn't even make sense.

Well, the courtroom reporters were certainly correct that OP had testified to the wrong birthday for Reeva, despite Alex Crawford's tweeted typo.

Only time will tell, of course, but Desi was talking to the media about what happened and Kim was flanked by police immediately too...so we'll see.

 

[shane13]

Napped too long--late to the party today.

My thoughts:
RE City Press article. It says Kim Myers. Reeva was supposedly best frends with Gina Myers, Kim's sister. Did CP confuse the two, or was Gina absent today? Both have usually been in Court next to each other.
I doubt that OP will be charged with anything in this regard for various reasons.

Now as Whiterum and others perhaps have noted, today was witness aftermath day.

These witnesses were retelling what happened after the final shooting. They were either awakened by final gunshots--and by the time they were fully awake, they never consciously heard them. Or else they were awakened by his 'help, help help" from the balcony--meant IMO to confuse/hide his earlier set of helps whch were mocking her set of help screams. Or maybe these wtnesses were woken up by neighbors' dogs.

But unlike the Stipps say, all today's witnesses were aftermath witnesses I believe. OP's crying or screaming after Reeva was dead can be gauged-- if PT version is correct-- as either coverup or irrelevant.

All today shows is that after some 6 or 7 witnesses or so, DT has done little for their client.

Even their pathologist (Dr Botha IIRC) I found proved his bias and unscientific testimony to state that the time of last meal parameter has no worth, instead of stating a range of times should be used. Like Dixon, his bias was evident.

The Judge has a record of who attended the autospy, and when she sees Dr Perumal was there but did not testify for the DT, she will have to consider that perhaps.

So IMO who DT has called, and not called, is telling.

Getting 2 women to wail in a high pitched voice to try to duplicate events heard well after the shooting concluded is desperate and meaningless. IMO.

 

[Cape Town Crim.]

If the purposeful murder of Reeva is not proven BARD to Masipa, which IMHO it hasn't been, in the first instance, following the legal flow chart that will lead Masipa to a verdict in respect of a perceived intruder, she will need to judge OP's state of mind as a subjective test so who knows which way she may go. I will certainly not be laying any bets as to the result as yet.

The problem the DT have re: Oscar's state of mind.

He 'Titanic-ed' his own state of mind defense during his own cross examination.

The seasoned psychologist who will be 'testifying as to the inner working of OP's mind' for the defense has a mountain to climb. He/she will have had to change all sorts of testimony prepared months ago as a result of OP's performance on the stand.

What is usually is rather simple task: testifying as an expert re: state of mind; turned into a little bit of a nightmare for whomever is set to appear. This due to OP's dreadful performance on the stand in his OWN defense.

Once more, just my opinion.

A nightmare to defend this man. Barry isn't being paid enough IMHO.

 

[lithgow1]

Me neither but I like to think about how she will see the totality of all this and what she might think about it. Given that a lot seems to come down to interpretations of what is 'genuine' and 'reasonable' it's about all I, as a layperson, can do. Wouldn't be much interest for me if I didn't follow it on that basis and try to pick up a bit of knowledge along the way, about both the law and human nature in all its permutations.

Post above was reply to G.bing's reply to me. If I knew the slightly embarassed little round face ... oh there it is

 

[liesbeth]

As in, re-open case in this trial, like a rebuttal?

I guess so. Please know I'm not sure our rebuttal is exactly the same as your rebuttal because I'm not familiar with the U.S. legal system. But from what I've read and seen on T.V. it sounds the same. More or less.

 

[MeeBee]

I guess so. Please know I'm not sure our rebuttal is exactly the same as your rebuttal because I'm not familiar with the U.S. legal system. But from what I've read and seen on T.V. it sounds the same. More or less.

Well, it sounds like it would be similar to a rebuttal in that the state will have a chance to rebut any new evidence introduced by the DT. I didn't even know that could happen here. That will be something to see. Maybe the case really will go until the 16th!

 

[Cape Town Crim.]

Ok, I see. Interesting.

What new evidence has been introduced.

Just an example: OP during his cross examination stated that he crouched. He also stated that he held his firearm in a specific manner.

Up until he had stated those words, the state had no idea as to what he would be stating.

The state 'could' apply to re-open their case and recall Capt Mangena to the stand in order to question him about OP's firing position once again - as the state have only NOW heard, via OP's own forked tongue what that position actually was.

Capt Mangena got terribly excited whilst OP was describing to the court 'how he stood and how he was holding his firearm'.

I'm not saying the state will do the above - but I'm trying to give you an example of 'evidence that will be NEW for the state - that they could try and refute if they applied to re-open their case'.

The evidence the psychologist for the DT gives, will most certainly be grounds for re-opening the state's case. Of that there is no doubt. The state will be afforded the opportunity to call their psychologists once this door has been opened by the defense.